Comments on: The danger of making our experience the norm for others https://headhearthand.org/blog/2011/12/13/the-danger-of-making-ourselves-the-norm-for-others/  Informing Minds. Moving Hearts. Directing Hands. Mon, 23 Feb 2026 18:08:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=3.8.41 By: Brief Book Notes: How Jesus Runs the Church and Jesus + Nothing = Everything | joelws.com https://headhearthand.org/blog/2011/12/13/the-danger-of-making-ourselves-the-norm-for-others/#comment-6011 Tue, 01 May 2012 01:10:43 +0000 http://headhearthand.org/?p=5443#comment-6011 [...] Murray’s 3-part review: Part 1, Part 2, Part [...]

]]> By: David Murray https://headhearthand.org/blog/2011/12/13/the-danger-of-making-ourselves-the-norm-for-others/#comment-4671 Thu, 29 Dec 2011 02:45:00 +0000 http://headhearthand.org/?p=5443#comment-4671 Some good points, Mike. But I think by overstating your case, you make yourself wiser than the book of Proverbs take on laziness.

]]> By: Mike https://headhearthand.org/blog/2011/12/13/the-danger-of-making-ourselves-the-norm-for-others/#comment-4636 Sat, 24 Dec 2011 16:03:17 +0000 http://headhearthand.org/?p=5443#comment-4636 Well I would have to disagree on one main point here, namely that doing things produces sanctification. Doing things is the result of sanctification. We always ought to look at whether people are doing those things that heart change produces as a barometer because it’s all we can see and it’s very diagnostic in a Luke 6:43-45 kind of way.

“For example, if one of my besetting sins is laziness (no ifs about it), then yes, I will need to begin with faith in Christ, union with Christ, and my identity as justified in Christ. But I also need to get off the couch, put on my boots, pick up the shovel, and start moving the snow. It’s going to involve effort, movement, and pain. ”

IMHO this paragraph is quite misguided. First of all, this person’s besetting sin is not laziness. Laziness is a product of his besetting sin which is self love. He is lazy because he loves himself too much to expose himself to the cold and sweat of shoveling the snow. The problem is not with his inertia but his affections.

All real change in behavior begins with and is fueled by a change of affections. This is why Psalm 16:11 is so helpful in counseling. If the church really believed this one verse it would spur more change than all the moralistic “snow shoveling because I know I should even though I don’t want to because I love myself more than I love God or my family” that a behavioristic view of sanctification can produce.

]]> By: David Murray https://headhearthand.org/blog/2011/12/13/the-danger-of-making-ourselves-the-norm-for-others/#comment-4601 Wed, 21 Dec 2011 02:14:55 +0000 http://headhearthand.org/?p=5443#comment-4601 Thanks Brent. In Tullian’s defense, I believe he would say that he does care about personal holiness. However, we seem to differ on the route to it, and I believe that will impact the attainment of it. I like your illustration!

]]> By: Book Review | Patrick’s Pensees https://headhearthand.org/blog/2011/12/13/the-danger-of-making-ourselves-the-norm-for-others/#comment-4554 Fri, 16 Dec 2011 03:13:35 +0000 http://headhearthand.org/?p=5443#comment-4554 [...] Part 2 [...]

]]> By: Warren https://headhearthand.org/blog/2011/12/13/the-danger-of-making-ourselves-the-norm-for-others/#comment-4541 Thu, 15 Dec 2011 02:21:49 +0000 http://headhearthand.org/?p=5443#comment-4541 Dr. Murray,

Allow me to direct you to the blog post: http://www.reformation21.org/blog/2011/08/sanctification-and-the-nature.php

Coincidentally, Tullian was also the topic of the discussion.

Dr. Evans states:

“Furthermore, it is unconvincing to suggest that Paul does not use the expectations and sanctions of the law as a motive for sanctification. More than once the Apostle provides extensive vice lists of behavior forbidden by the law of God, adding that those who behave thus “will not inherit the kingdom of God” (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21; Ephesians 5:3-5). That sounds like motivation to me! Furthermore, even in that most “gospelish” of epistles, the letter to the Galatians, Paul underscores the obligation of the believer to fulfill the “law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2), and later in the same chapter he speaks of God punishing the wicked and rewarding those who walk according to the Spirit (Galatians 6:6-10). Again, this sounds like motivation to me! And even though Tchividjian affirms the “third use of the law” (the law of God as a guide for the life of the Christian), we may legitimately ask whether there is any real room in his thinking for it.”

Here, unlike your emphasis on the motivation to obedience as predicated upon the maintenance of the subjective enjoyment of God’s fellowship, Evans seems to be saying that one must obey the Law because, in the end, you might not inherit the Kingdom of God after all if you don’t.

Your thoughts are coveted.

]]> By: David Murray https://headhearthand.org/blog/2011/12/13/the-danger-of-making-ourselves-the-norm-for-others/#comment-4534 Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:47:20 +0000 http://headhearthand.org/?p=5443#comment-4534 Warren: I agree with the idea of justification being the drive train of our sanctification. But there are also other “models” of salvation that are equally motivational (e.g. bought with a price, therefore glorify God with your body…).

I’ve never thought of the fear of not being justified being an impetus to the effort required in sanctification. I think I’d be hesitant to go down that route. It seems to get things the wrong way round and opens the door wide to legalism. But I’d need to read Evans on it before dismissing it.

]]> By: David Murray https://headhearthand.org/blog/2011/12/13/the-danger-of-making-ourselves-the-norm-for-others/#comment-4533 Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:43:48 +0000 http://headhearthand.org/?p=5443#comment-4533 Interesting point about the Puritans, Les. I never thought about that before. However, I think there can be a place for introducing some of our spiritual biography into our teaching, as long as we don’t do too much of it and as long as we make clear that we are not making ourselves the norm. I actually felt that some of the biographical elements in Tullian’s book gave what he was teaching extra power and force. I like to see someone trying to relate the Gospel to their lives.

]]> By: David Murray https://headhearthand.org/blog/2011/12/13/the-danger-of-making-ourselves-the-norm-for-others/#comment-4532 Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:40:20 +0000 http://headhearthand.org/?p=5443#comment-4532 Thanks for your prayers, Jason. I need them!

]]> By: Brent https://headhearthand.org/blog/2011/12/13/the-danger-of-making-ourselves-the-norm-for-others/#comment-4531 Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:38:27 +0000 http://headhearthand.org/?p=5443#comment-4531 David, great post. I am greatly burdened by the fact the nobody seems to care about personal holiness.

There is definitely a link between justification and sanctification:

If I truly understood my justification, I would wholly commit myself to my sanctification.

Knowing what Christ did for me, how can I live a life where I tolerate my sin? It’s like having diplomatic immunity and exploiting it instead of bringing honor to my home country by my conduct.

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