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	<title>Comments on: Contraception? Where&#8217;s the vision?</title>
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	<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2012/02/24/contraception-wheres-the-vision/</link>
	<description> Informing Minds. Moving Hearts. Directing Hands.</description>
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		<title>By: David Murray</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2012/02/24/contraception-wheres-the-vision/#comment-5363</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Murray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=6517#comment-5363</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Adam. Your points are good and challenging. I hope and pray also for the day when politicians themselves will bow to King Jesus. When I look back over the last 100 years in the UK, as far as I know we have had no Prime Minister who bowed the knee to Christ. However, when policies were enacted that were in accordance with the Word of God, the nation did prosper. I don&#039;t think that was a coincidence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Adam. Your points are good and challenging. I hope and pray also for the day when politicians themselves will bow to King Jesus. When I look back over the last 100 years in the UK, as far as I know we have had no Prime Minister who bowed the knee to Christ. However, when policies were enacted that were in accordance with the Word of God, the nation did prosper. I don&#8217;t think that was a coincidence.</p>
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		<title>By: David Murray</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2012/02/24/contraception-wheres-the-vision/#comment-5362</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Murray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Feb 2012 20:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=6517#comment-5362</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I agree with you, Heidi, about the media. The problem is, as you say, they set the trap and the candidates walk into it every time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, Heidi, about the media. The problem is, as you say, they set the trap and the candidates walk into it every time.</p>
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		<title>By: max</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2012/02/24/contraception-wheres-the-vision/#comment-5360</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[max]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Feb 2012 17:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=6517#comment-5360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Concerning Paul:
1. In the last debate he said the greatest misconception about him is that people think he can&#039;t win. He repeatedly said that he&#039;s in it to win it. The problem about him communicating the ideas is that he usually isn&#039;t given the time to do that. When he&#039;s given a little more time it&#039;s just to respond to stupid allegations. The media tries to marginalize him. Go to ronpaulflix.com and watch some of his longer speeches. I&#039;m sure you will be impressed.

2. When Paul says that he&#039;s supportive of all voluntary associations he doesn&#039;t mean that he&#039;s supporting gay marriage. What he wants is the government to get out of the marriage business and let the people do what they want. Of course that would allow gay people to &quot;marry&quot; (something that&#039;s not avoidable anyways because the culture is bad), but on the other hand there wouldn&#039;t be this big official redefinition of marriage, like we see in more and more states. The same is true for abortion. If you take the authority away from the federal government to decide for all the states whether or not it&#039;s legal, you can fight it on a more local level. Otherwise the next liberal government will just overturn it again.

3. Paul is the only one who takes the economy seriously, the only one who understands the FED and the only one who will really cut spending. All the others will INCREASE spending according to their own published plans! Unfortunately most people are prejudiced and don&#039;t take the time to really listen to what he says. Ron Paul is the only one who&#039;s written books about the crisis we have now long before it happened. People are just not aware of all the things he&#039;s said and written - the problem is with the media.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Concerning Paul:<br />
1. In the last debate he said the greatest misconception about him is that people think he can&#8217;t win. He repeatedly said that he&#8217;s in it to win it. The problem about him communicating the ideas is that he usually isn&#8217;t given the time to do that. When he&#8217;s given a little more time it&#8217;s just to respond to stupid allegations. The media tries to marginalize him. Go to ronpaulflix.com and watch some of his longer speeches. I&#8217;m sure you will be impressed.</p>
<p>2. When Paul says that he&#8217;s supportive of all voluntary associations he doesn&#8217;t mean that he&#8217;s supporting gay marriage. What he wants is the government to get out of the marriage business and let the people do what they want. Of course that would allow gay people to &#8220;marry&#8221; (something that&#8217;s not avoidable anyways because the culture is bad), but on the other hand there wouldn&#8217;t be this big official redefinition of marriage, like we see in more and more states. The same is true for abortion. If you take the authority away from the federal government to decide for all the states whether or not it&#8217;s legal, you can fight it on a more local level. Otherwise the next liberal government will just overturn it again.</p>
<p>3. Paul is the only one who takes the economy seriously, the only one who understands the FED and the only one who will really cut spending. All the others will INCREASE spending according to their own published plans! Unfortunately most people are prejudiced and don&#8217;t take the time to really listen to what he says. Ron Paul is the only one who&#8217;s written books about the crisis we have now long before it happened. People are just not aware of all the things he&#8217;s said and written &#8211; the problem is with the media.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben Manring</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2012/02/24/contraception-wheres-the-vision/#comment-5342</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ben Manring]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 23:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=6517#comment-5342</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think you&#039;re mistaken to suppose that Rick Santorum has welcomed the attention focussed by the media on his personal religious beliefs regarding contraception. He shakes his head whenever it comes up (which is often lately), and even Newt Gingrich excoriated CNN on Wednesday for trying to make something of this, while they will not say a word about the President&#039;s support for infanticide (he was instrumental, while in the Illinois legislature, in defeating a bill which would have spared the lives of babies born alive during an abortion).  

You ask, &quot;Where is the Republican who can honestly and courageously articulate the benefits of proportionate shared sacrifice for huge long-term gain?&quot; If you replace the word &quot;Republican&quot; with that of &quot;Democrat,&quot; the answer is easy: Barack Obama. Shared sacrifice, imposed by the government, is called socialism, and is not a Republican ideal, nor does it ever result in huge long-term gain. It&#039;s hard to know where you&#039;re going with this, because perhaps you&#039;re not suggesting a government program, maybe just a fatherly word of encouragement and an example. But then why are you criticizing the entire panel of candidates? Some of them have been very generous with their personal charity and have been outstanding examples of men (Santorum, Romney, Huntsman), and women (Bachman), taking care of their families.

At the same time you seem to dislike the emphasis that has been placed on so-called social issues like abortion and gay marriage. Now these are within the proper purview of government (Rom 13:3; Ps 82:3; the many laws dealing with marriage imply a government interest--contra Stewart) and it has been a long tradition in American politics for us to care about a man&#039;s faith, the credibility of his profession of it, and how we expect that faith to be worked out in his stand for the correspondence of our laws with biblical values.

It is the view of many that in no election have the social issues been more important than the one that will take place this November. This is because of the unprecedented and relentless attack taking place on marriage, and the indefatigable efforts of our Christ professing President to destroy it. He&#039;s not alone. There is one Republican candidate who is on board with the agenda, the only one, as it happens, who has gotten positive press in the comments of yourself and others succeeding your blog: Ron Paul. 

John Stossel: &quot;Homosexuality. Should gays be allowed to marry?&quot;
Ron Paul: &quot;Sure.&quot;

Anonymous Interviewer: &quot;So your position on issues like gay marriage, you would be supportive of that?&quot;
Ron Paul: &quot;I am supportive of all voluntary associations and people can call it whatever they want.&quot;

&quot;There should essentially be no limits to the voluntary definition of marriage,&quot; Ron Paul&#039;s Book, Liberty Defined

Brian Brown, President of the National Organization for Marriage: &quot;Would you support an amendment to the U.S. Constitution defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman?&quot;
Ron Paul: &quot;No.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re mistaken to suppose that Rick Santorum has welcomed the attention focussed by the media on his personal religious beliefs regarding contraception. He shakes his head whenever it comes up (which is often lately), and even Newt Gingrich excoriated CNN on Wednesday for trying to make something of this, while they will not say a word about the President&#8217;s support for infanticide (he was instrumental, while in the Illinois legislature, in defeating a bill which would have spared the lives of babies born alive during an abortion).  </p>
<p>You ask, &#8220;Where is the Republican who can honestly and courageously articulate the benefits of proportionate shared sacrifice for huge long-term gain?&#8221; If you replace the word &#8220;Republican&#8221; with that of &#8220;Democrat,&#8221; the answer is easy: Barack Obama. Shared sacrifice, imposed by the government, is called socialism, and is not a Republican ideal, nor does it ever result in huge long-term gain. It&#8217;s hard to know where you&#8217;re going with this, because perhaps you&#8217;re not suggesting a government program, maybe just a fatherly word of encouragement and an example. But then why are you criticizing the entire panel of candidates? Some of them have been very generous with their personal charity and have been outstanding examples of men (Santorum, Romney, Huntsman), and women (Bachman), taking care of their families.</p>
<p>At the same time you seem to dislike the emphasis that has been placed on so-called social issues like abortion and gay marriage. Now these are within the proper purview of government (Rom 13:3; Ps 82:3; the many laws dealing with marriage imply a government interest&#8211;contra Stewart) and it has been a long tradition in American politics for us to care about a man&#8217;s faith, the credibility of his profession of it, and how we expect that faith to be worked out in his stand for the correspondence of our laws with biblical values.</p>
<p>It is the view of many that in no election have the social issues been more important than the one that will take place this November. This is because of the unprecedented and relentless attack taking place on marriage, and the indefatigable efforts of our Christ professing President to destroy it. He&#8217;s not alone. There is one Republican candidate who is on board with the agenda, the only one, as it happens, who has gotten positive press in the comments of yourself and others succeeding your blog: Ron Paul. </p>
<p>John Stossel: &#8220;Homosexuality. Should gays be allowed to marry?&#8221;<br />
Ron Paul: &#8220;Sure.&#8221;</p>
<p>Anonymous Interviewer: &#8220;So your position on issues like gay marriage, you would be supportive of that?&#8221;<br />
Ron Paul: &#8220;I am supportive of all voluntary associations and people can call it whatever they want.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;There should essentially be no limits to the voluntary definition of marriage,&#8221; Ron Paul&#8217;s Book, Liberty Defined</p>
<p>Brian Brown, President of the National Organization for Marriage: &#8220;Would you support an amendment to the U.S. Constitution defining marriage as the union of one man and one woman?&#8221;<br />
Ron Paul: &#8220;No.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Kuehner</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2012/02/24/contraception-wheres-the-vision/#comment-5341</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam Kuehner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 23:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=6517#comment-5341</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In other words, ministers must call the nation to repentance, but politicians (as representatives of the nation) must respond to this call by &quot;Kissing the Son&quot; (Ps. 2). The call to repentance is ministerial or prophetic, but the repentance itself is the common duty of all magistrates and their subjects.

Sorry if that wasn&#039;t clear in my first post.  Probably I&#039;m just nervous posting here b/c of how much your preaching ministry has served to correct &amp; redefine my own over the last few years!  Keep up the good work!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other words, ministers must call the nation to repentance, but politicians (as representatives of the nation) must respond to this call by &#8220;Kissing the Son&#8221; (Ps. 2). The call to repentance is ministerial or prophetic, but the repentance itself is the common duty of all magistrates and their subjects.</p>
<p>Sorry if that wasn&#8217;t clear in my first post.  Probably I&#8217;m just nervous posting here b/c of how much your preaching ministry has served to correct &amp; redefine my own over the last few years!  Keep up the good work!</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Kuehner</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2012/02/24/contraception-wheres-the-vision/#comment-5340</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Adam Kuehner]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 22:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=6517#comment-5340</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael: Say hi to your parents for me :)

Dr. Murray: Thanks for your response.  To clarify, I didn&#039;t say anything about politicians calling the nation to repentance.  (As a preacher, I&#039;m calling THEM to repentance.)  My comment simply asserted that politicians must THEMSELVES repent, embrace Christ as the &quot;King of Kings&quot;, and openly acknowledge the Scriptures as morally authoritative.

I truly covet your optimism :)  However, I&#039;m not aware of any nation that God has enabled to &quot;get the second table right&quot; while spurning the first table (Rom. 1). In the U.S., we&#039;ve been trying that approach since 1789 and today there isn&#039;t much &quot;second table&quot; left to speak of!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael: Say hi to your parents for me <img src="https://headhearthand.org/eph24/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley" /> </p>
<p>Dr. Murray: Thanks for your response.  To clarify, I didn&#8217;t say anything about politicians calling the nation to repentance.  (As a preacher, I&#8217;m calling THEM to repentance.)  My comment simply asserted that politicians must THEMSELVES repent, embrace Christ as the &#8220;King of Kings&#8221;, and openly acknowledge the Scriptures as morally authoritative.</p>
<p>I truly covet your optimism <img src="https://headhearthand.org/eph24/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" class="wp-smiley" />   However, I&#8217;m not aware of any nation that God has enabled to &#8220;get the second table right&#8221; while spurning the first table (Rom. 1). In the U.S., we&#8217;ve been trying that approach since 1789 and today there isn&#8217;t much &#8220;second table&#8221; left to speak of!</p>
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		<title>By: David Murray</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2012/02/24/contraception-wheres-the-vision/#comment-5337</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Murray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:24:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=6517#comment-5337</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stuart and Larry: I agree that on paper many of Ron Paul&#039;s policies are the most biblical ( apart from a few weird hobby-horses). However, IMHO he does a very poor job in communicating and reaching out in a compelling and persuasive manner. I get the impression that he&#039;s not very interested in persuading more than his core 12-15%. That to me is a serious failure of leadership. I don&#039;t think he wants the presidency. A platform maybe, but not the presidency.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuart and Larry: I agree that on paper many of Ron Paul&#8217;s policies are the most biblical ( apart from a few weird hobby-horses). However, IMHO he does a very poor job in communicating and reaching out in a compelling and persuasive manner. I get the impression that he&#8217;s not very interested in persuading more than his core 12-15%. That to me is a serious failure of leadership. I don&#8217;t think he wants the presidency. A platform maybe, but not the presidency.</p>
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		<title>By: David Murray</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2012/02/24/contraception-wheres-the-vision/#comment-5336</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Murray]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 19:16:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=6517#comment-5336</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re right Adam, your comment is not antagonistic. I suppose I maybe would be more positive than you about God blessing our society if we even get just the second table right. In the absence of any candidate calling the nation to repentance and faith in Christ (is that a politician&#039;s job anyway?) I still think its worthwhile engaging the political process to get the best economic and social conditions possible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right Adam, your comment is not antagonistic. I suppose I maybe would be more positive than you about God blessing our society if we even get just the second table right. In the absence of any candidate calling the nation to repentance and faith in Christ (is that a politician&#8217;s job anyway?) I still think its worthwhile engaging the political process to get the best economic and social conditions possible.</p>
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		<title>By: barry</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2012/02/24/contraception-wheres-the-vision/#comment-5335</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[barry]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 18:31:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=6517#comment-5335</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thank you David &amp; thank you Adam~]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you David &amp; thank you Adam~</p>
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		<title>By: Heidi Pronk</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2012/02/24/contraception-wheres-the-vision/#comment-5333</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Heidi Pronk]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Feb 2012 15:05:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=6517#comment-5333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I share your lament about the lack of candidates with a positive vision.  All of them, to one degree or another, sound negative (including Ron Paul who often sounds like a cranky old man.)  We win more with honey than with vinegar.  However, there is also a concerted effort on the part of the secular media to ensure that conservative candidates are portrayed in a negative way. A good example of that is giving hours of air time to a comment Santorum made about Satan 4 years ago.  Often the trap gets set and we step into it.  I think that&#039;s what happened with Franklin Graham.  Ultimately, these men are more in need of our prayers for wisdom than our criticism.  Is there anything more difficult than for a fallen sinner to faithfully represent Christ in the public sphere?  
The religious freedom issue is one that seems to be largely escaping the Protestant community.  This is not just about Catholic hospitals and contraception; it affects every Christian school, pregnancy resource center, and religious organization.  I&#039;m helping to organize this event next week to educate Christians about this issue:  http://www.acallforreligiousfreedom.com/  We must stand firm on this!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I share your lament about the lack of candidates with a positive vision.  All of them, to one degree or another, sound negative (including Ron Paul who often sounds like a cranky old man.)  We win more with honey than with vinegar.  However, there is also a concerted effort on the part of the secular media to ensure that conservative candidates are portrayed in a negative way. A good example of that is giving hours of air time to a comment Santorum made about Satan 4 years ago.  Often the trap gets set and we step into it.  I think that&#8217;s what happened with Franklin Graham.  Ultimately, these men are more in need of our prayers for wisdom than our criticism.  Is there anything more difficult than for a fallen sinner to faithfully represent Christ in the public sphere?<br />
The religious freedom issue is one that seems to be largely escaping the Protestant community.  This is not just about Catholic hospitals and contraception; it affects every Christian school, pregnancy resource center, and religious organization.  I&#8217;m helping to organize this event next week to educate Christians about this issue:  <a href="http://www.acallforreligiousfreedom.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.acallforreligiousfreedom.com/</a>  We must stand firm on this!</p>
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