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	<title>Comments on: Ted Haggard On How Not To Repent</title>
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	<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2013/12/17/ted-haggard-on-how-not-to-repent/</link>
	<description> Informing Minds. Moving Hearts. Directing Hands.</description>
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		<title>By: Alley</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2013/12/17/ted-haggard-on-how-not-to-repent/#comment-49850</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Feb 2017 07:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=15867#comment-49850</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Amen!!!! Amen!!! Amen!!! &amp; Amen!!! I haven&#039;t read Ted Haggards 
blog but as I was reading this article, I wasn&#039;t feeling it  because of 
the exact reasons you said. Here is a question I ask the church randombiblequestions.blogspot.com
 My blog was partially inspired by Ted Haggard seeing that I went to New
 Life before &amp; after He fell. I haven&#039;t been to his new church 
though. This blog is just a question God put on my heart rega    urding 
the matter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen!!!! Amen!!! Amen!!! &amp; Amen!!! I haven&#8217;t read Ted Haggards<br />
blog but as I was reading this article, I wasn&#8217;t feeling it  because of<br />
the exact reasons you said. Here is a question I ask the church randombiblequestions.blogspot.com<br />
 My blog was partially inspired by Ted Haggard seeing that I went to New<br />
 Life before &amp; after He fell. I haven&#8217;t been to his new church<br />
though. This blog is just a question God put on my heart rega    urding<br />
the matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Dann Youle</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2013/12/17/ted-haggard-on-how-not-to-repent/#comment-42766</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dann Youle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jan 2014 18:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=15867#comment-42766</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As an evangelical man who was sexually abused as a child and who has struggled w/ a bisexual orientation as part of the &quot;fallout &quot; I think this blog article and many of the comments have left out an important point. The point being that healing was needed for Rev. Haggard throughout both repentance and therapy. It seems to me like it may have been lacking on the repentance side. As far as restoration which affects a significant population within the Body of Christ, it seems like the restoration should come after a period of time, with a care team around the person-godly individuals who have walked with the fallen leader through their repentance and restoration process. When the Holy Spirit leads them to publicly restore the individual it should be lead by this team of godly individuals. The person who is be restored should humbly accept whatever limitations and accountability the leadership team feels need to still be in place-both for complete restoration and so the restored leader doesn&#039;t have to &quot;promote&quot; themselves and convince people they&#039;ve truly repented and restored. If the church leadership would bother to deal with Biblical restoration to it&#039;s fullest extent, these questions wouldn&#039;t still &quot;hang in the air,&quot; and they wouldn&#039;t have to be on &quot;public trial&quot; for people to decide for themselves whether or not that individuals restoration is complete!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As an evangelical man who was sexually abused as a child and who has struggled w/ a bisexual orientation as part of the &#8220;fallout &#8221; I think this blog article and many of the comments have left out an important point. The point being that healing was needed for Rev. Haggard throughout both repentance and therapy. It seems to me like it may have been lacking on the repentance side. As far as restoration which affects a significant population within the Body of Christ, it seems like the restoration should come after a period of time, with a care team around the person-godly individuals who have walked with the fallen leader through their repentance and restoration process. When the Holy Spirit leads them to publicly restore the individual it should be lead by this team of godly individuals. The person who is be restored should humbly accept whatever limitations and accountability the leadership team feels need to still be in place-both for complete restoration and so the restored leader doesn&#8217;t have to &#8220;promote&#8221; themselves and convince people they&#8217;ve truly repented and restored. If the church leadership would bother to deal with Biblical restoration to it&#8217;s fullest extent, these questions wouldn&#8217;t still &#8220;hang in the air,&#8221; and they wouldn&#8217;t have to be on &#8220;public trial&#8221; for people to decide for themselves whether or not that individuals restoration is complete!</p>
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		<title>By: Christian Blogs&#8217; Digest: For Busy Disciples (Dec. 2013) &#171; Gospel of Jesus Christ, New Covenant Theology, Calvinism, Preaching</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2013/12/17/ted-haggard-on-how-not-to-repent/#comment-41315</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Christian Blogs&#8217; Digest: For Busy Disciples (Dec. 2013) &#171; Gospel of Jesus Christ, New Covenant Theology, Calvinism, Preaching]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Jan 2014 07:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=15867#comment-41315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] we’re truly healed by God, then we will stop proudly blaming, and start humbly worshipping. Ted Haggard on How Not to Repent by David [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] we’re truly healed by God, then we will stop proudly blaming, and start humbly worshipping. Ted Haggard on How Not to Repent by David [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Abram Hess</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2013/12/17/ted-haggard-on-how-not-to-repent/#comment-40023</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Abram Hess]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Dec 2013 17:49:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=15867#comment-40023</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ms. Campbell, it seems almost inconceivable that Mr. Haggard&#039;s fall wasn&#039;t inextricably tied in with pride, self-aggrandizing, a hunger for fame, and a desire for the adulation of his followers. If that&#039;s the case, then the fruit of his repentance will be to repent of pride, self-aggrandizement, fame, and the adulation of men, because he has publicly demonstrated that he is weak and susceptible to those temptations. Such repentance would require his complete exit from public life, his employment in a humble line of work, and his cultivation of his own obscurity. It is not vindictive to expect this of Mr. Haggard; rather, it is for his own protection and the protection of the church, to guard him from falling into the same sin again, and to guard the church from being betrayed by him in the same way again.

The kind of repentance I described above are all things which are not yet evident in his life, which leads the discerning Christian to question the authenticity of his repentance. You&#039;re right that repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation are the heart of Christianity; however, we are also commanded to no longer be gullible children, but to be mature men in our understanding and discernment. We are commanded to be gentle as doves, and shrewd as serpents. So please, make a shrewd estimate of Mr. Haggard&#039;s repentance, and make a discerning judgment as to whether or not he has escaped his temptation to betray the bride of Christ (once again) in order to indulge his own lusts. It looks to me, and many others on this blog, like Mr. Haggard might just be up to his same old tricks. Shouldn&#039;t we be wary?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ms. Campbell, it seems almost inconceivable that Mr. Haggard&#8217;s fall wasn&#8217;t inextricably tied in with pride, self-aggrandizing, a hunger for fame, and a desire for the adulation of his followers. If that&#8217;s the case, then the fruit of his repentance will be to repent of pride, self-aggrandizement, fame, and the adulation of men, because he has publicly demonstrated that he is weak and susceptible to those temptations. Such repentance would require his complete exit from public life, his employment in a humble line of work, and his cultivation of his own obscurity. It is not vindictive to expect this of Mr. Haggard; rather, it is for his own protection and the protection of the church, to guard him from falling into the same sin again, and to guard the church from being betrayed by him in the same way again.</p>
<p>The kind of repentance I described above are all things which are not yet evident in his life, which leads the discerning Christian to question the authenticity of his repentance. You&#8217;re right that repentance, forgiveness, and reconciliation are the heart of Christianity; however, we are also commanded to no longer be gullible children, but to be mature men in our understanding and discernment. We are commanded to be gentle as doves, and shrewd as serpents. So please, make a shrewd estimate of Mr. Haggard&#8217;s repentance, and make a discerning judgment as to whether or not he has escaped his temptation to betray the bride of Christ (once again) in order to indulge his own lusts. It looks to me, and many others on this blog, like Mr. Haggard might just be up to his same old tricks. Shouldn&#8217;t we be wary?</p>
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		<title>By: random thoughts &#38; miscellany &#124; georgianne</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2013/12/17/ted-haggard-on-how-not-to-repent/#comment-39751</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[random thoughts &#38; miscellany &#124; georgianne]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Dec 2013 12:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=15867#comment-39751</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] ~ How not to repent [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] ~ How not to repent [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Stacey Campbell</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2013/12/17/ted-haggard-on-how-not-to-repent/#comment-39394</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Stacey Campbell]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Dec 2013 14:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=15867#comment-39394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have to say that I am so disappointed in this blog and its followers. Obviously, there are many Christians who divide the Bible and see the Old Testament as strict, harsh, and full of the Law, while the New Testament as grace, forgiveness, and love--as if God himself has a split personality. They tend to see the Old Testament as tough on sin, while the New Testament as soft on sin. It is very obvious where this blog lands. 

It saddens me that many on this blog, including the author himself, seem to come from a strictly Old Testament perspective. To suggest that someone who sins &quot;will take a quiet and unpublicized place in the church of Christ for the rest of his life&quot; fails to embrace any semblance of grace, forgiveness, and restoration. I can only be grateful that God did not view David this way, or Paul, or most definitely Peter. Not only is this a punitive and judgmental response, but simply unbiblical. God always calls for the full restoration of the person who has stumbled, no matter the sin, no matter the reasons, as long as the individual is submissive and repentant. God even restores the person to the prior position--and sometimes even more so--than what they had before...yes, even in the Old Testament (see 2 Chronicles 33).

I can only be grateful that God does not treat me or others who sin like the ones on this site suggest.

Greg Gibson, were you with Ted in the aftermath of his scandal? Have you read his journals to know how he cried out to God? To pass such harsh criticism on a man like Haggard for a situation that happened over 7 years ago without knowing him and without even having a conversation with him (including both David Murray and Terry Rayburn, apparently) is both irresponsible, inexcusable, and frankly, quite immature. I understand that this sort of writing drives traffic to our blogs and websites and articles, but as members of the same family of God, we can do better than this.

But I suppose the image of an evil, unrepentant sociopath is simply more exciting than the truth.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to say that I am so disappointed in this blog and its followers. Obviously, there are many Christians who divide the Bible and see the Old Testament as strict, harsh, and full of the Law, while the New Testament as grace, forgiveness, and love&#8211;as if God himself has a split personality. They tend to see the Old Testament as tough on sin, while the New Testament as soft on sin. It is very obvious where this blog lands. </p>
<p>It saddens me that many on this blog, including the author himself, seem to come from a strictly Old Testament perspective. To suggest that someone who sins &#8220;will take a quiet and unpublicized place in the church of Christ for the rest of his life&#8221; fails to embrace any semblance of grace, forgiveness, and restoration. I can only be grateful that God did not view David this way, or Paul, or most definitely Peter. Not only is this a punitive and judgmental response, but simply unbiblical. God always calls for the full restoration of the person who has stumbled, no matter the sin, no matter the reasons, as long as the individual is submissive and repentant. God even restores the person to the prior position&#8211;and sometimes even more so&#8211;than what they had before&#8230;yes, even in the Old Testament (see 2 Chronicles 33).</p>
<p>I can only be grateful that God does not treat me or others who sin like the ones on this site suggest.</p>
<p>Greg Gibson, were you with Ted in the aftermath of his scandal? Have you read his journals to know how he cried out to God? To pass such harsh criticism on a man like Haggard for a situation that happened over 7 years ago without knowing him and without even having a conversation with him (including both David Murray and Terry Rayburn, apparently) is both irresponsible, inexcusable, and frankly, quite immature. I understand that this sort of writing drives traffic to our blogs and websites and articles, but as members of the same family of God, we can do better than this.</p>
<p>But I suppose the image of an evil, unrepentant sociopath is simply more exciting than the truth.</p>
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		<title>By: Friday Five – The Week&#8217;s &#8216;Best&#8217; Posts &#124; Random Thoughts From a Cluttered Mind</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2013/12/17/ted-haggard-on-how-not-to-repent/#comment-39085</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Friday Five – The Week&#8217;s &#8216;Best&#8217; Posts &#124; Random Thoughts From a Cluttered Mind]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Dec 2013 11:08:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=15867#comment-39085</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] Ted Haggard On How Not To Repent by David Murray [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Ted Haggard On How Not To Repent by David Murray [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Pretty Fun &#8230; &#124; Luggaged</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2013/12/17/ted-haggard-on-how-not-to-repent/#comment-38819</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Pretty Fun &#8230; &#124; Luggaged]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Dec 2013 22:21:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=15867#comment-38819</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] number and content) this week. I could have discussed Harold Camping&#8217;s death, or repentance Ted Haggard style, or the problems with the updated NIV, or how to read the Bible in a more meaningful way. [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] number and content) this week. I could have discussed Harold Camping&#8217;s death, or repentance Ted Haggard style, or the problems with the updated NIV, or how to read the Bible in a more meaningful way. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: David Kowalski</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2013/12/17/ted-haggard-on-how-not-to-repent/#comment-38796</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Kowalski]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Dec 2013 20:09:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=15867#comment-38796</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ted Haggard&#039;s comment seems to me a bit like someone saying, &quot;2+2=4 and 4+4=10. Am I right or wrong?&quot; Haggard is right in saying he is to blame for his conduct but he does not stop there. He then blames his conduct on a non-specified, psychological issue that caused him to do the things he did. His real issue is supposedly psychological and not moral, and what he really, supposedly needed was therapy rather than correction. He then offers his time in therapy as a badge of honor and rebukes those who sought to correct him. He claims now to be &quot;healed&quot; of the unspecified, psychological malady he was a victim of that made him do what he did. He thus takes full responsibility for his victimization -- which is psychobabble doublespeak.  

Unfortunately, many people in the church share Haggard&#039;s views on immoral conduct being caused by a psychological problem that needs healing through talk therapy. They ignore the fact that this approach is a proven failure with recidivism rates that are deplorable. They also ignore the fact that their approach to changing behavior cannot be found in Scripture -- a very odd omission from a book that is largely about such change if the talk therapy approach is really valid. I am in favor of counseling in such cases as Haggard&#039;s but only if it is biblical.﻿]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ted Haggard&#8217;s comment seems to me a bit like someone saying, &#8220;2+2=4 and 4+4=10. Am I right or wrong?&#8221; Haggard is right in saying he is to blame for his conduct but he does not stop there. He then blames his conduct on a non-specified, psychological issue that caused him to do the things he did. His real issue is supposedly psychological and not moral, and what he really, supposedly needed was therapy rather than correction. He then offers his time in therapy as a badge of honor and rebukes those who sought to correct him. He claims now to be &#8220;healed&#8221; of the unspecified, psychological malady he was a victim of that made him do what he did. He thus takes full responsibility for his victimization &#8212; which is psychobabble doublespeak.  </p>
<p>Unfortunately, many people in the church share Haggard&#8217;s views on immoral conduct being caused by a psychological problem that needs healing through talk therapy. They ignore the fact that this approach is a proven failure with recidivism rates that are deplorable. They also ignore the fact that their approach to changing behavior cannot be found in Scripture &#8212; a very odd omission from a book that is largely about such change if the talk therapy approach is really valid. I am in favor of counseling in such cases as Haggard&#8217;s but only if it is biblical.﻿</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Rayburn</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2013/12/17/ted-haggard-on-how-not-to-repent/#comment-38775</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Terry Rayburn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Dec 2013 18:04:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=15867#comment-38775</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have followed the Haggard case for all these years, having written a blog post on it shortly after it happened.

I removed the blog post a few years ago, because my mind changed regarding the sincerity of his &quot;repentance&quot;.

My first &quot;take&quot; was something like, &quot;Hey, give him a chance, don&#039;t kick a brother when he&#039;s down, blah blah blah.&quot;

But I&#039;ve observed a lot in the intervening years, in Haggard and in the Church in general, concluding the following:

1. Sadly, &quot;the ministry&quot; too often attracts what the world calls Sociopaths. (Sociopaths are characterized by a. a lack of conscience, b. narcissism, and c. a high level of intelligent ability to manipulate people).

2. This is true, sad to say, because Christians are too often...no nice way to say it...gullible. Usually, this is because of a default setting of &quot;love&quot;, which is a great default setting, but unfortunately combined with biblical ignorance regarding doctrine of various kinds.

3. I&#039;ve never seen repentance BORN OF CONSCIENCE in Haggard, only a general admission of &quot;wrongness&quot; after getting caught. But admission of wrongness is not repentance at all if one justifies that wrongness in any way, or deflects personal sin, as David Murray points out.

4. The saddest thing of all is that this Sociopathic tendency is rampant in Church leadership, from the smallest of little local church fiefdoms to the hugest of prominent ministries.

If you doubt that, watch for the three [primary] characteristics mentioned above:

a. a lack of conscience
b. narcissism (often accompanied by fake humility, btw)
c. a high level of intelligent ability to manipulate people

And treasure your leaders if they exhibit the opposite:

a. a tender conscience
b. a self-less love for others
c. a refusal to be manipulative to get what they want]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have followed the Haggard case for all these years, having written a blog post on it shortly after it happened.</p>
<p>I removed the blog post a few years ago, because my mind changed regarding the sincerity of his &#8220;repentance&#8221;.</p>
<p>My first &#8220;take&#8221; was something like, &#8220;Hey, give him a chance, don&#8217;t kick a brother when he&#8217;s down, blah blah blah.&#8221;</p>
<p>But I&#8217;ve observed a lot in the intervening years, in Haggard and in the Church in general, concluding the following:</p>
<p>1. Sadly, &#8220;the ministry&#8221; too often attracts what the world calls Sociopaths. (Sociopaths are characterized by a. a lack of conscience, b. narcissism, and c. a high level of intelligent ability to manipulate people).</p>
<p>2. This is true, sad to say, because Christians are too often&#8230;no nice way to say it&#8230;gullible. Usually, this is because of a default setting of &#8220;love&#8221;, which is a great default setting, but unfortunately combined with biblical ignorance regarding doctrine of various kinds.</p>
<p>3. I&#8217;ve never seen repentance BORN OF CONSCIENCE in Haggard, only a general admission of &#8220;wrongness&#8221; after getting caught. But admission of wrongness is not repentance at all if one justifies that wrongness in any way, or deflects personal sin, as David Murray points out.</p>
<p>4. The saddest thing of all is that this Sociopathic tendency is rampant in Church leadership, from the smallest of little local church fiefdoms to the hugest of prominent ministries.</p>
<p>If you doubt that, watch for the three [primary] characteristics mentioned above:</p>
<p>a. a lack of conscience<br />
b. narcissism (often accompanied by fake humility, btw)<br />
c. a high level of intelligent ability to manipulate people</p>
<p>And treasure your leaders if they exhibit the opposite:</p>
<p>a. a tender conscience<br />
b. a self-less love for others<br />
c. a refusal to be manipulative to get what they want</p>
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