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	<title>Comments on: Merit and Moses (Part 4)</title>
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	<description> Informing Minds. Moving Hearts. Directing Hands.</description>
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		<title>By: Merit and Moses (Part 4)</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2014/08/14/merit-and-moses-part-4/#comment-47681</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Merit and Moses (Part 4)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2015 22:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=18583#comment-47681</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] is Professor of Old Testament &amp; Practical Theology at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary. This article first appeared on his blog, Head Heart Hand, and is used with [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] is Professor of Old Testament &amp; Practical Theology at Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary. This article first appeared on his blog, Head Heart Hand, and is used with [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Creation and Covenant Recast and Collapsed Together &#124; RPCNA Covenanter</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2014/08/14/merit-and-moses-part-4/#comment-46631</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Creation and Covenant Recast and Collapsed Together &#124; RPCNA Covenanter]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2014 00:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=18583#comment-46631</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] On a side issue David Murray&#8217;s review and summation are excellent. Merit and Moses Pt. 4 [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] On a side issue David Murray&#8217;s review and summation are excellent. Merit and Moses Pt. 4 [&#8230;]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martin</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2014/08/14/merit-and-moses-part-4/#comment-46376</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Martin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2014 01:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=18583#comment-46376</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi David,
You claim older theologians did not understand covenant of works as covenant of works but more as moral law - that is a huge claim. Do you have any evidence of this for Warfield, Hodge, Boettner, Berkhoff etc?? Or was it a throw away line?
Thanks,

Martin]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David,<br />
You claim older theologians did not understand covenant of works as covenant of works but more as moral law &#8211; that is a huge claim. Do you have any evidence of this for Warfield, Hodge, Boettner, Berkhoff etc?? Or was it a throw away line?<br />
Thanks,</p>
<p>Martin</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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		<title>By: Brian Rollins</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2014/08/14/merit-and-moses-part-4/#comment-46315</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brian Rollins]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2014 13:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=18583#comment-46315</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;With theology, I’ve often noticed that the more complex a system, the more likely that it’s wrong.&quot;  What a great line.  So true!  Another prime example of that: the Framework Hypothesis of Creation]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;With theology, I’ve often noticed that the more complex a system, the more likely that it’s wrong.&#8221;  What a great line.  So true!  Another prime example of that: the Framework Hypothesis of Creation</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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		<title>By: Suffenus Redux</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2014/08/14/merit-and-moses-part-4/#comment-46312</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Suffenus Redux]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2014 03:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=18583#comment-46312</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suspect the RP advocates (at least in the OPC) will &quot;pounce on one or two weaknesses in the MM case&quot; precisely because &quot;one&quot; of those weaknesses, as you yourself admit, happens to be its thorough lack of any attention to exegesis.  Surely if Scripture really is our final authority for our faith and practice, the lack of attention to that is no small matter, no?  Every RP advocate I know doesn&#039;t hold to the position out of a perceived need to oppose Shepherd but rather because they believe the Scriptures teach it, and so to lay the blame at Shepherd&#039;s feet without actually dealing with the exegetical arguments along the way is not going to move the debate forward but in a very real sense it only exacerbates it.  Can you think of any examples of ministers responding &#039;graciously&#039; when they are beaten over the head with the Confessions and told their views are out of accord with the Reformed faith?

Given the OP&#039;s committee make up, I certainly expect a better and balanced attention given to exegetical, theological and confessional matters.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect the RP advocates (at least in the OPC) will &#8220;pounce on one or two weaknesses in the MM case&#8221; precisely because &#8220;one&#8221; of those weaknesses, as you yourself admit, happens to be its thorough lack of any attention to exegesis.  Surely if Scripture really is our final authority for our faith and practice, the lack of attention to that is no small matter, no?  Every RP advocate I know doesn&#8217;t hold to the position out of a perceived need to oppose Shepherd but rather because they believe the Scriptures teach it, and so to lay the blame at Shepherd&#8217;s feet without actually dealing with the exegetical arguments along the way is not going to move the debate forward but in a very real sense it only exacerbates it.  Can you think of any examples of ministers responding &#8216;graciously&#8217; when they are beaten over the head with the Confessions and told their views are out of accord with the Reformed faith?</p>
<p>Given the OP&#8217;s committee make up, I certainly expect a better and balanced attention given to exegetical, theological and confessional matters.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Richard Tallach</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2014/08/14/merit-and-moses-part-4/#comment-46305</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Richard Tallach]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2014 16:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=18583#comment-46305</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[TLNF is highly indigestible.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TLNF is highly indigestible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: R. Martin Snyder</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2014/08/14/merit-and-moses-part-4/#comment-46304</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[R. Martin Snyder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2014 15:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=18583#comment-46304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Patrick has also done some work on the Levitcus chapter 18.  
http://patrickspensees.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/pauls-use-of-lev-185-in-rom-105/

I have done some work using Calvin on Galatians.  But will leave that for others to seek out.  

I also wrote a blog speaking about the substance of the Mosaic in relation to the New Covenant.  As a Reformed Baptist I used the 2 Corinthians 3 passage to show that the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant were not the same in Substance.  After a bit more study on the passage a few years ago I came to a different conclusion.  

Here is what I wrote on that matter.  

&quot;A statement was also made how the Mosaic should be viewed as an 
administration of death. I actually believe the above helps us answer 
this problem but I also saw this. We as fallen people tend to want to 
turn the Covenant of Grace into a Covenant of Works. Many people even do
 this concerning the New Covenant today when they add works to the 
equation of justification by faith.

In light of the passage mentioned in 2 Corinthians 3, which calls the
 Old an administration of Death, one must also read the prior passages 
to understand what context St. Paul is referring to the Mosaic Covenant 
in.

(2Co 2:14) Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth 
us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge
 by us in every place.

(2Co 2:15) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:

(2Co 2:16) To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and
 to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for 
these things?

(2Co 2:17) For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of 
God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in
 Christ.

Christ and the Gospel were Preached in Moses and the Old Testament. In fact Jesus said as much as did the author of Hebrews.

(Luk 24:27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, 
he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning 
himself.

(Joh 5:46) For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

(Joh 5:47) But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

(Heb 4:2)

For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word 
preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that 
heard it.

(Heb 4:3)

For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have 
sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works 
were finished from the foundation of the world.

The Mosaic was an administration of death the same way the New 
Covenant is to those who seek to turn the New Covenant into a Covenant 
of Works. We are so inclined to stumble because we will not believe 
Moses or Christ. We naturally tend to corrupt the Word of God and the 
Covenant of Grace by wanting to add our works into our justification 
before God. In doing so we are refusing the Cornerstone and Saviour.  We
 become like those that Paul is speaking about, “to one they [Paul and 
the Apostles] are a savour of death unto death.” And how is to be 
considered that Paul and the Church is a savour unto death?  They are 
because they do what Paul says he doesn’t do in the proceeding verse, 
“For we are not as those who corrupt the Word of God.”  Those who 
corrupt the word are rejecting the Chief Cornerstone and depending upon 
their works or acts that contribute to their justification. The book of 
Galatians, Romans, and Hebrews have warnings and correctives for those 
who corrupt the word. But when they reject the truth they fall deeper 
into death. Even St. Paul acknowledged that the Law didn’t kill him. He 
was already dead and discovered it.

Rom 7:13    Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no 
means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order 
that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might 
become sinful beyond measure.

On another note I would mention that some say that the Mosaic was a 
Covenant that administered the Covenant of Grace as well as the Covenant
 of Works. Some differentiate that works was required in order for the 
Israelite’s to stay in and be blessed in the Land. They stayed in the 
Land based upon their works. Some say that this is different from the 
New Covenant. I am not seeing this difference. There are conditions set 
for us to remain in the Church even. For one thing Jesus himself said in
 Revelation 2 that he would remove a local Church’s candlestick if they 
didn’t repent. In 1 Corinthians 5 a man who was found to be exceedingly 
sinful was to be delivered to Satan and excommunicated from the Church. 
In Galatians 6:7 we are told that we reap what we sow.

I actually see what happened to the Church in the Old Covenant to be 
very gracious and just a form of discipline. It was grace that 
chastisement happened. It was grace that brought Israel back into the 
Land. They were the Church that was redeemed from bondage. God called 
them His people. They grew from dwelling in the wilderness to possessing
 the land. If it was by works then they would have never been brought 
back as they were. It looks quite the same to me as the man in 1 
Corinthians 5. A casting out was performed. Excommunication was evident.
 Restoration by God’s grace was confirmed. The substance of both the Old
 pedagogical Covenant and the New are essentially the same. Salvation, 
regeneration, faith, repentance, justification, and sanctification for 
the Church is the same between both the old and new. It is all by God’s 
Covenant of Grace. The substance seems to be the same to me.&quot;
http://rpcnacovenanter.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/the-mosaic-covenant-same-in-substance-as-the-new/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick has also done some work on the Levitcus chapter 18.<br />
<a href="http://patrickspensees.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/pauls-use-of-lev-185-in-rom-105/" rel="nofollow">http://patrickspensees.wordpress.com/2011/08/09/pauls-use-of-lev-185-in-rom-105/</a></p>
<p>I have done some work using Calvin on Galatians.  But will leave that for others to seek out.  </p>
<p>I also wrote a blog speaking about the substance of the Mosaic in relation to the New Covenant.  As a Reformed Baptist I used the 2 Corinthians 3 passage to show that the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant were not the same in Substance.  After a bit more study on the passage a few years ago I came to a different conclusion.  </p>
<p>Here is what I wrote on that matter.  </p>
<p>&#8220;A statement was also made how the Mosaic should be viewed as an<br />
administration of death. I actually believe the above helps us answer<br />
this problem but I also saw this. We as fallen people tend to want to<br />
turn the Covenant of Grace into a Covenant of Works. Many people even do<br />
 this concerning the New Covenant today when they add works to the<br />
equation of justification by faith.</p>
<p>In light of the passage mentioned in 2 Corinthians 3, which calls the<br />
 Old an administration of Death, one must also read the prior passages<br />
to understand what context St. Paul is referring to the Mosaic Covenant<br />
in.</p>
<p>(2Co 2:14) Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth<br />
us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge<br />
 by us in every place.</p>
<p>(2Co 2:15) For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish:</p>
<p>(2Co 2:16) To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and<br />
 to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for<br />
these things?</p>
<p>(2Co 2:17) For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of<br />
God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in<br />
 Christ.</p>
<p>Christ and the Gospel were Preached in Moses and the Old Testament. In fact Jesus said as much as did the author of Hebrews.</p>
<p>(Luk 24:27) And beginning at Moses and all the prophets,<br />
he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning<br />
himself.</p>
<p>(Joh 5:46) For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.</p>
<p>(Joh 5:47) But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?</p>
<p>(Heb 4:2)</p>
<p>For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word<br />
preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that<br />
heard it.</p>
<p>(Heb 4:3)</p>
<p>For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have<br />
sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works<br />
were finished from the foundation of the world.</p>
<p>The Mosaic was an administration of death the same way the New<br />
Covenant is to those who seek to turn the New Covenant into a Covenant<br />
of Works. We are so inclined to stumble because we will not believe<br />
Moses or Christ. We naturally tend to corrupt the Word of God and the<br />
Covenant of Grace by wanting to add our works into our justification<br />
before God. In doing so we are refusing the Cornerstone and Saviour.  We<br />
 become like those that Paul is speaking about, “to one they [Paul and<br />
the Apostles] are a savour of death unto death.” And how is to be<br />
considered that Paul and the Church is a savour unto death?  They are<br />
because they do what Paul says he doesn’t do in the proceeding verse,<br />
“For we are not as those who corrupt the Word of God.”  Those who<br />
corrupt the word are rejecting the Chief Cornerstone and depending upon<br />
their works or acts that contribute to their justification. The book of<br />
Galatians, Romans, and Hebrews have warnings and correctives for those<br />
who corrupt the word. But when they reject the truth they fall deeper<br />
into death. Even St. Paul acknowledged that the Law didn’t kill him. He<br />
was already dead and discovered it.</p>
<p>Rom 7:13    Did that which is good, then, bring death to me? By no<br />
means! It was sin, producing death in me through what is good, in order<br />
that sin might be shown to be sin, and through the commandment might<br />
become sinful beyond measure.</p>
<p>On another note I would mention that some say that the Mosaic was a<br />
Covenant that administered the Covenant of Grace as well as the Covenant<br />
 of Works. Some differentiate that works was required in order for the<br />
Israelite’s to stay in and be blessed in the Land. They stayed in the<br />
Land based upon their works. Some say that this is different from the<br />
New Covenant. I am not seeing this difference. There are conditions set<br />
for us to remain in the Church even. For one thing Jesus himself said in<br />
 Revelation 2 that he would remove a local Church’s candlestick if they<br />
didn’t repent. In 1 Corinthians 5 a man who was found to be exceedingly<br />
sinful was to be delivered to Satan and excommunicated from the Church.<br />
In Galatians 6:7 we are told that we reap what we sow.</p>
<p>I actually see what happened to the Church in the Old Covenant to be<br />
very gracious and just a form of discipline. It was grace that<br />
chastisement happened. It was grace that brought Israel back into the<br />
Land. They were the Church that was redeemed from bondage. God called<br />
them His people. They grew from dwelling in the wilderness to possessing<br />
 the land. If it was by works then they would have never been brought<br />
back as they were. It looks quite the same to me as the man in 1<br />
Corinthians 5. A casting out was performed. Excommunication was evident.<br />
 Restoration by God’s grace was confirmed. The substance of both the Old<br />
 pedagogical Covenant and the New are essentially the same. Salvation,<br />
regeneration, faith, repentance, justification, and sanctification for<br />
the Church is the same between both the old and new. It is all by God’s<br />
Covenant of Grace. The substance seems to be the same to me.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://rpcnacovenanter.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/the-mosaic-covenant-same-in-substance-as-the-new/" rel="nofollow">http://rpcnacovenanter.wordpress.com/2012/09/14/the-mosaic-covenant-same-in-substance-as-the-new/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2014/08/14/merit-and-moses-part-4/#comment-46303</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Patrick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2014 12:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=18583#comment-46303</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for this series.  Very helpful.  Here is an older journal article dealing with Kline&#039;s view of the Mosaic Covenant from a confessional point of view: http://patrickspensees.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/in-defense-of-moses.pdf]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this series.  Very helpful.  Here is an older journal article dealing with Kline&#8217;s view of the Mosaic Covenant from a confessional point of view: <a href="http://patrickspensees.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/in-defense-of-moses.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://patrickspensees.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/in-defense-of-moses.pdf</a></p>
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