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	<title>Comments on: What the Church Can Learn from Weinsteingate</title>
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	<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2017/10/12/what-the-church-can-learn-from-weinsteingate/</link>
	<description> Informing Minds. Moving Hearts. Directing Hands.</description>
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		<title>By: Paine4444</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2017/10/12/what-the-church-can-learn-from-weinsteingate/#comment-50348</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paine4444]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Dec 2017 20:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[You don&#039;t &quot;get&quot; anything about abuse dynamics, Paula.  You are too busy attacking other women who defend themselves against sexist attacks, justifying genocide against Native Americans, and playing stupid online games to think independently or develop understanding for those different from you.  Of course you would slurp up these lies, burp, and ask for more.  You get nothing, Paula.  Nothing at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You don&#8217;t &#8220;get&#8221; anything about abuse dynamics, Paula.  You are too busy attacking other women who defend themselves against sexist attacks, justifying genocide against Native Americans, and playing stupid online games to think independently or develop understanding for those different from you.  Of course you would slurp up these lies, burp, and ask for more.  You get nothing, Paula.  Nothing at all.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Today&#039;s Links (10.19.2017) &#124; Anchored in Christ</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2017/10/12/what-the-church-can-learn-from-weinsteingate/#comment-50242</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Today&#039;s Links (10.19.2017) &#124; Anchored in Christ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Oct 2017 13:37:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] David Murray: What the Church Can Learn from Weinsteingate [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] David Murray: What the Church Can Learn from Weinsteingate [&#8230;]</p>
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	</item>
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		<title>By: Cindi Eggers</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2017/10/12/what-the-church-can-learn-from-weinsteingate/#comment-50233</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cindi Eggers]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2017 18:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=27230#comment-50233</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Really good points Barbara]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really good points Barbara</p>
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		<title>By: GayeC</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2017/10/12/what-the-church-can-learn-from-weinsteingate/#comment-50232</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GayeC]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2017 16:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=27230#comment-50232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t think it&#039;s possible for the church to fully address the problem of sexual abuse while still clinging to the belief that every form of power, control and authority belongs to men. It just won&#039;t happen. It isn&#039;t enough for the men in power to ask their wives what they think about an issue. As long as women have no  real voice in an organization, the problems that affect them (and children) will almost inevitably be marginalized. I belong to a denomination that gives women an equal voice with men in the life of the church, and sexual abuse scandals are very rare. Not because the people in the denomination aren&#039;t sinners (of course, we are!) but because when women have a voice and some power they generally do not put up with men sexually abusing children and other women.

You noted that many people, &quot;including female employees,&quot; turned a blind eye to Weinstein&#039;s vile behavior. Yes, we&#039;d all like to believe that women will support other women and call out horrific behavior by men. But, again, it comes back to power. If your livelihood, the means by which you support yourself and your family, depends on a man who is behaving abominably, the act of calling him on it becomes very complicated and difficult. The same thing occurs in the church. What chance does a mere woman, who has no real voice or power, have against the word of a pastor, elder, or youth pastor? Anyone who is paying attention knows that women or girls who say, &quot;The youth pastor raped me,&quot; or &quot;The pastor fondled me,&quot; or &quot;I saw this elder touch a child,&quot; are typically silenced, attacked and, eventually, shunned. So the act of speaking the truth - of calling those people out - becomes very complicated and difficult.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s possible for the church to fully address the problem of sexual abuse while still clinging to the belief that every form of power, control and authority belongs to men. It just won&#8217;t happen. It isn&#8217;t enough for the men in power to ask their wives what they think about an issue. As long as women have no  real voice in an organization, the problems that affect them (and children) will almost inevitably be marginalized. I belong to a denomination that gives women an equal voice with men in the life of the church, and sexual abuse scandals are very rare. Not because the people in the denomination aren&#8217;t sinners (of course, we are!) but because when women have a voice and some power they generally do not put up with men sexually abusing children and other women.</p>
<p>You noted that many people, &#8220;including female employees,&#8221; turned a blind eye to Weinstein&#8217;s vile behavior. Yes, we&#8217;d all like to believe that women will support other women and call out horrific behavior by men. But, again, it comes back to power. If your livelihood, the means by which you support yourself and your family, depends on a man who is behaving abominably, the act of calling him on it becomes very complicated and difficult. The same thing occurs in the church. What chance does a mere woman, who has no real voice or power, have against the word of a pastor, elder, or youth pastor? Anyone who is paying attention knows that women or girls who say, &#8220;The youth pastor raped me,&#8221; or &#8220;The pastor fondled me,&#8221; or &#8220;I saw this elder touch a child,&#8221; are typically silenced, attacked and, eventually, shunned. So the act of speaking the truth &#8211; of calling those people out &#8211; becomes very complicated and difficult.</p>
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		<title>By: Dipping into the Community Pool: October 14 &#8211; Christians Anonymous</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2017/10/12/what-the-church-can-learn-from-weinsteingate/#comment-50231</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dipping into the Community Pool: October 14 &#8211; Christians Anonymous]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2017 12:54:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=27230#comment-50231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] What the Church Can Learn from Weinsteingate [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] What the Church Can Learn from Weinsteingate [&#8230;]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Saturday Links - DashHouse</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2017/10/12/what-the-church-can-learn-from-weinsteingate/#comment-50230</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Saturday Links - DashHouse]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2017 09:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=27230#comment-50230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] What the Church can Learn from Weinsteingate [&#8230;]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] What the Church can Learn from Weinsteingate [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Barbara Roberts</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2017/10/12/what-the-church-can-learn-from-weinsteingate/#comment-50229</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barbara Roberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2017 01:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=27230#comment-50229</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi David, is the a way I can &#039;tick a box&#039; to receive email notification of further comments on this post? 
Please let me know by messaging me somehow. I&#039;m on FB, and my twitter handle is @notunderbondage]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David, is the a way I can &#8216;tick a box&#8217; to receive email notification of further comments on this post?<br />
Please let me know by messaging me somehow. I&#8217;m on FB, and my twitter handle is @notunderbondage</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dee Parsons</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2017/10/12/what-the-church-can-learn-from-weinsteingate/#comment-50228</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dee Parsons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Oct 2017 12:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=27230#comment-50228</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Question: What happens when a child is abused and speaks out against it and the elder has never been accused before.The law allows the testimony of an outcry witness and a person can be convicted on the testimony of one abused child. There are rarely witnesses to child sex abuse. How does this jive with the &quot;2-3 witness&quot; rule? I do not think the Scripture was referring to abuse in this situation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Question: What happens when a child is abused and speaks out against it and the elder has never been accused before.The law allows the testimony of an outcry witness and a person can be convicted on the testimony of one abused child. There are rarely witnesses to child sex abuse. How does this jive with the &#8220;2-3 witness&#8221; rule? I do not think the Scripture was referring to abuse in this situation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Barbara Roberts</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2017/10/12/what-the-church-can-learn-from-weinsteingate/#comment-50227</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Barbara Roberts]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Oct 2017 02:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=27230#comment-50227</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What you&#039;ve written here, David, applies to domestic abuse as well. 

I lead the blog A Cry For Justice which is seeking to awaken the evangelical church to domestic abuse in  its midst. It&#039;s obvious from the things our readers tell us that it is not uncommon for a perpetrator of domestic abuse to be a pastor or have some other leadership role in the church. And many of them sexually abuse their targets as well as use other forms of abuse (emotional, psychological, coercive control, micro-managing the target&#039;s life, financial abuse, isolation of the target, physical violence). 

One of ways churches can bungle the discipline of abusers is a misunderstanding of the &#039;two or three witnesses&#039; precept. And abusers greatly promote this misunderstanding, because it enables them to get away with their sinful behavior.

In sexual abuse and domestic abuse, there is usually no eye witness other than the victim. So when churches (and abusive clergy) demand that there be two or three other eye witnesses, this makes it impossible to discipline pastors and elders who are perpetrating abuse. What most elder boards fail to realise is that there can be other &#039;witnesses&#039; as well as eye witnesses. 

Here are some examples of the kinds of evidence that a victim may bring. The fact that she is not permitted to spend a dime of her own volition. The characteristic nature of the psychological abuse she reports. Indicators in the children’s behavior. The mere fact that after years of marriage she is now only hesitatingly, coming forward to ask for help. Her own confusion about whether she is to blame. Financial records showing the husband’s credit card payments (e.g. to porn sites). Computer and phone records which demonstrate the abuser’s pattern of sinful conduct. The observation of a member of the church who has witnessed the husband speaking sarcastically to his wife, or belittling her, or smirking inappropriately. All these things point to the disordered character of the abuser — his pattern of entitlement and his hardened heart.

And here is a post which explains this in more detail: 
https://cryingoutforjustice.com/2015/12/21/how-abusers-use-mis-use-matthew-18-to-escape-prosecution/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What you&#8217;ve written here, David, applies to domestic abuse as well. </p>
<p>I lead the blog A Cry For Justice which is seeking to awaken the evangelical church to domestic abuse in  its midst. It&#8217;s obvious from the things our readers tell us that it is not uncommon for a perpetrator of domestic abuse to be a pastor or have some other leadership role in the church. And many of them sexually abuse their targets as well as use other forms of abuse (emotional, psychological, coercive control, micro-managing the target&#8217;s life, financial abuse, isolation of the target, physical violence). </p>
<p>One of ways churches can bungle the discipline of abusers is a misunderstanding of the &#8216;two or three witnesses&#8217; precept. And abusers greatly promote this misunderstanding, because it enables them to get away with their sinful behavior.</p>
<p>In sexual abuse and domestic abuse, there is usually no eye witness other than the victim. So when churches (and abusive clergy) demand that there be two or three other eye witnesses, this makes it impossible to discipline pastors and elders who are perpetrating abuse. What most elder boards fail to realise is that there can be other &#8216;witnesses&#8217; as well as eye witnesses. </p>
<p>Here are some examples of the kinds of evidence that a victim may bring. The fact that she is not permitted to spend a dime of her own volition. The characteristic nature of the psychological abuse she reports. Indicators in the children’s behavior. The mere fact that after years of marriage she is now only hesitatingly, coming forward to ask for help. Her own confusion about whether she is to blame. Financial records showing the husband’s credit card payments (e.g. to porn sites). Computer and phone records which demonstrate the abuser’s pattern of sinful conduct. The observation of a member of the church who has witnessed the husband speaking sarcastically to his wife, or belittling her, or smirking inappropriately. All these things point to the disordered character of the abuser — his pattern of entitlement and his hardened heart.</p>
<p>And here is a post which explains this in more detail:<br />
<a href="https://cryingoutforjustice.com/2015/12/21/how-abusers-use-mis-use-matthew-18-to-escape-prosecution/" rel="nofollow">https://cryingoutforjustice.com/2015/12/21/how-abusers-use-mis-use-matthew-18-to-escape-prosecution/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Paula Coyle</title>
		<link>https://headhearthand.org/blog/2017/10/12/what-the-church-can-learn-from-weinsteingate/#comment-50226</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Paula Coyle]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Oct 2017 01:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://headhearthand.org/?p=27230#comment-50226</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Excellent!  Really wish you would tell us who you&#039;re thinking about currently, but most of us get it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent!  Really wish you would tell us who you&#8217;re thinking about currently, but most of us get it.</p>
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