I hate writing about this subject, but with both French and British parliaments passing gay marriage laws in the past week, we’re reaching a no-turning-back point in our world. God is sovereign and specializes in last minute rescues, but barring a Mordecai-type intervention we might as well face up to the reality that gay marriage is coming down the pike at an unstoppable speed, and it’s going to impact many Christians in damaging and even destructive ways. While continuing to pray, preach, and campaign against this (read these nine words again), we must also ask how we can prepare for the collision in such a way that minimizes the carnage.

1. Prepare our children
Most of us try to protect our children from sexual information until they are mature enough to handle it, without delaying so much that they end up hearing it first from someone else. We also want to lay a solid foundation of teaching them about God’s beautiful design for sexual relationships before eventually explaining the various perversions of God’s order.

That privilege – of waiting until our children are old enough and of presenting the beautiful before the ugly – will be increasingly denied us by the normalization and display of homosexuality in the media, in schools, and in the malls. This is going to be tough, but we will have to teach our children much earlier and about much more than we would ordinarily choose.

2. Prepare to love
Though Christians are often accused of hating homosexuals, homosexuals harbor far more hate for Christians than vice versa. They really do hate us in a way I’ve never seen in any other group – way more than radical Muslims or even the secular humanist and communist groups of the 1970′s to 1990′s, and that’s saying something. They are our self-declared enemies and want to see our beliefs, words, and actions criminalized. They want to shut down our businesses, render Christians unemployable, and incarcerate our preachers.

In response, we must love them.

That’s going to be one of the hardest things we will ever do, as most of us will never have encountered such personal enmity from anyone. But we must beg for the spirit of Christ, who prayed, “Forgive them father, for they know not what they do.” We must graciously and gently good-news them and good-deed them, while being unflinching in our moral convictions.

We don’t need to prove our spiritual manhood by condemning homosexuality in every sermon and prayer. Keep the focus on the saving love of Christ, no matter how tempting it is to get into constant condemnation mode. Remember, there are probably homosexuals in most of our congregations. Try to win them, not beat them.

3. Prepare for jail
I doubt most politicians really want lots of otherwise law-abiding citizens jailed for refusing to bake a cake for a gay wedding, or for preaching that homosexuality is wrong. Many do, however, want to create a climate of intimidation that will deter Christians from doing such things. If the UK pattern is a model – and it looks as if US campaigners are using the same playbook – they will pass “hate-crime” legislation, press charges against us, shame us in the media, stigmatize our businesses and churches, threaten us with the loss of our children, and impose substantial fines, all in the hope to scare us into silence. But when none of these things move us, the legal penalties will intensify until eventually some of us, maybe many of us, will end up going to prison for it. We’d better get ready for that inevitable reality.

4. Prepare for betrayal
This is going to be a sifting time. Some Christians will cave. Prominent preachers will compromise. Famous Christians will distance themselves from believers who have fallen foul of homosexual campaigners. “What’s the point in going to jail? We can still preach the Gospel without ever mentioning homosexuality. We must be wise….etc.” There will be major Judas-type disappointments. The mighty will fall. But many humble unknown Christians will suffer honorably and beautifully and know the blessedness of being persecuted for righteousness sake.

5. Prepare a refuge?
This great nation was founded when a group of persecuted believers fled religious persecution to find and enjoy freedom of religion. It’s beyond ironic that the very same pilgrims would be among the first targets of this new “religious” persecution if they were alive today. If the current trajectory continues, we will look at one another and ask, “Where can we flee to?” Perhaps a State will come forward that will stand up to this tyranny and offer refuge to thousands of moral and spiritual refugees, aliens in their own land. Maybe another Mayflower will be required, perhaps many of them, this time to sail away from these shores in hope of finding freedom to worship and serve God according to His Word. But where to? Where is left? Russia? Which brings us to…

6. Prepare for eternity
The Bible makes clear, and history backs it up, that when a people goes down this route, it’s close to it’s end. It has run out of moral ground, it’s already over the cliff, and falling into the holy wrath of God. As country after country passes gay marriage laws, the end is coming closer and closer. If the USA falls, how far behind will God’s judgment be? The time is short and shortening. We need mercy, we need prayer, we need to plead with our family and friends to flee the coming wrath by fleeing to Christ the only savior of sinners – yes even homosexual sinners – that will come to Him for salvation.

In the meantime, let’s not give up and give in but continue to do all that we can to save our society and precious souls.

  • Philip Larson

    Thank you, David, for this wise counsel.

    • ChrisG

      David, please….PLEASE quit using the word “gay” as a cover for homosexuality!

      I remember seeing a commercial on ESPN about a group of teenage boys sitting at a booth in a restaurant talking to ea other, & they used the phrase “That’s so gay!” when a lesbian walked by them & said how offended she was over their using the word “gay” in a manner that it was never intended to be used.

      HOWEVER, she herself was doing the exact same thing when she switched to meaning of the word “gay” from originally meaning to be happy, merry, cheerful, etc. to being a cover for sodomy.

      Personally, I am deeply offended by the homosexual community changing the meaning of the word “gay” due to the fact that I have members of my family whose last name is Gay. Which definition of the word “gay” was used in my family tree, pray tell?

      Gay does NOT = homosexuality/sodomy, etc. Please quit using the word for such purposes. Thank you.

    • Pam Hettinga

      What a blessing. I read this to some in my family as many are in the thick of the battle. Every day we are indeed closer to the end. Let’s fight the good fight each one of us right where we are!

  • http://philippians314.squarespace.com Kim Shay

    Here in Canada, we have been living with this, too. A pastor in Alberta was jailed for refusing to marry a couple.

  • Phil Simpson

    Thanks, David. Astute observations; sadly, I think they are spot on.

    Do you see it being long before ministers who refuse to perform gay marriages lose their licenses? Seems like it will be placed in the same moral category as refusing to marry people of a different race (i.e., discrimination).

    • Kathleen

      Since religious ceremonies have nothing to do with legal marriage, the rituals practiced by priests and shamans and mullahs and rabbis are entirely irrelevant to gay rights and thus there is no reason for anyone (other than their own adherents) what any particular sect practices.

    • http://headhearthand.org/blog/ David Murray

      More than lose licenses. They will be jailed.

    • http://www.byron-harvey.com Byron Harvey

      The course I have already decided to take, should I ever live in a state which approves “gay marriage”, is to refuse to sign a marriage license for ANYBODY. Why would I want to become an accessory to such a truncated definition of marriage? I will happily perform a ceremony of Christian matrimony for those who meet the requirements I’ve always held, but if the issue is LEGAL marriage, it seems to me that a (the?) valid Christian response will soon be to ignore it. We need, as believers, to define what marriage really is–and then act in accordance with that definition. A marriage doesn’t have to have the imprimatur of some particular state in order to be valid or legitimate in God’s eyes, does it?

  • http://iamunbound.org Aaron Youngren

    Very helpful, David. “Prepare for Jail.” It’s freeing to follow it all out to its natural conclusion. Thanks.

  • Tom

    Sobering yet real. As Christians it would be wise to look at the history of the church and apply the good and correct the bad. The Catacombs, burning at the stake, beheading, apply it in whatever way necessary for our day. Can we love and make holy warfare? I hope so.

  • Pingback: The Briefing for Thursday 2.7.2013 « Ponder Anew

  • http://www.christcitymemphis.org Jonathan McIntosh

    David – I respect you deeply and have been encouraged and challenged by your blog in the past. With that said, I would like to offer some critique to this post as humbly as possible. I say humbly because – especially on this issue – I am not certain that I am seeing things clearly. I could be wrong.

    1. “Homosexuals harbor far more hate for Christians than vice versa.”
    In my experience (in the context of Southern evangelicalism) this simply is not true. I know this is anecdotal evidence, but most (95%+) of my gay friends have been hurt & wounded by the Church in some way often in the name of Christ but have not given into hate in return. I’ve been pleasantly surprised by the spiritual interest that is alive in the gay community. Many are open to the Christian Church but have never felt loved by the most vocal Christians they know.

    Imagine this scenario that (still) plays out in communities in the South every day. You’re a young man who – as he hits adolescence – realizes he is attracted to his same gender. Most likely you start to pray – every day – that God would take this desire from you. You beg God, but he never seems to take the desire away. Why? you ask. You need to talk to someone, but who do you tell? Friends? Youth pastor? Parents? Once you confide in a friend or a parent, you find that the church or school gossip train starts and you are now ostracized by people that once were your most trusted allies.

    I’ve heard story after story of young gay kids coming home to find the locks changed and their stuff thrown out into the yard, come to school to be openly mocked, or worse yet, physically assaulted, spit on and beat up their first year at college.

    At this point, where do you turn? Who will accept you? Who “gets” you? The gay community of course. And community only reinforces identity.

    If there is a chasm of anger and bitterness between evangelicals and the gay community, it is time that the evangelical church woke up to the fact that we caused that chasm. We are now simply reaping the just desserts of our prejudice and hate.

    2. “Some Christians will cave. Prominent preachers will compromise.”
    The way you set this scenario up, David, it seems that no one can disagree with you and maintain faithfulness. Brother, there are good Christians (yes – truly regenerate, Jesus-loving, Bible-believing Christians) who will disagree on this issue.

    Please recognize that not everyone sees gay marriage as the death-knell to American Christianity as you do. (Maybe my statement just proves my own naïveté.) There will be Christian leaders who will not care what the State says or does. (ie: I can uphold the rights of freedom of speech for the Ku Klux Klan and 1. disagree with their message and 2. not allow them to speak in my pulpit.)

    It’s possible to hold that same-gender sexual interaction is sinful and yet still advocate for civil rights for gays and lesbians. I met a woman once who had been with her partner longer than I had been alive, and yet when her partner got a terminal illness and died, the woman had no rights at her partner’s bedside. When the partner’s family (who had rejected and marginalized her her entire adult life) swooped in, she was powerless to uphold her dying partner’s wishes.

    These types of issues (and worse still) play out in this country on a regular basis.

    Whether these women are Christians or not or whether they agree with me on the Bible’s view of sexuality, in this instance does not matter. This is a justice issue, and as a pastor I can advocate for laws that will protect them.

    3. “If the current trajectory continues, we will look at one another and ask, ‘Where can we flee to?’ Perhaps a State will come forward…”
    A State that legally endorses and enforces (their view of) God’s view of human sexuality and sexual practices? Is cohabitation outlawed in this State? Is adultery punishable by death in this State?

    I would not want to live in this State, because most likely it would be hardened to the gospel in different but more subtle and insidious ways by breeding a culture of fear, homophobia and self-righteousness.

    Do we want a State where everyone agrees with us?

    4. “This is going to be tough, but we will have to teach our children much earlier and about much more than we would ordinarily choose.”
    For those of us who live in cities and have children in public schools, this is already the case. My 1st grader goes to school with children with two mommies. I’m not saying that this environment is good or bad, I’m just saying that it already is. Legalizing or failing to legalize gay marriage will not change this reality.

    There’s more I could say and much more to be said on all sides of this issue. I hope that fruitful dialogue can come of this. I recognize that I could be wrong and often beg God for wisdom on this issue. Forgive me if my comments here are out of line, but I wanted you to hear a different perspective from a conservative (Puritan-loving) voice.

    • Susan Z.

      We are in a situation where it is better to call what is good evil, and what is evil good. Is is a sign of our times.

    • Marissa

      I’m sorry I had to stop reading after you made your second point. It’s obvious that you love others and desire their equality. I think you are forgetting that we live under a totally holy God who has clearly-defined expectations and commands for us (as laid out in the Old Testament and which Jesus did not come to abolish but to fulfill.) When someone chooses a lifestyle that is contrary to what the Lord has defined is glorifying to him (such as homosexuality, fornication, adultery, unwed parents, drug/alcohol abuse, etc) then life is going to be hard; it’s going to seem unfair and not right. The Lord gave us those statutes “so all will go well with [us]” as he says multiple times in the OT to Israel. He says in Deuteronomy 11 there are blessings for following him and curses when you don’t. It’s that simple.

      The tough part (for me anyway) is how to love gay friends who don’t see their lives as sin, like adultery, drug abuse etc, but they insist they were made that way. This foundational difference in viewpoint puts a huge barrier from the beginning.

      Also if they are seeking God and asking for the temptation to be removed and it isn’t, that does not mean the Lord condones that behavior and desire; many of us live with “thorns in the flesh” that the Lord does not remove and it is not for us to say “Well I have this so God must be happy with me this way.” His word is very clear about the way we are and are not to live, and having homosexual desires that don’t go away doesn’t mean that they are ok and you must be just “made that way”, but on the contrary it means you are under a severe time of testing during which a sincere suffering person with homosexual desires might say But he knows the way that I take; when he has tested me, I will come forth as gold” (Job 23:10).

      We cannot compromise where God’s word does not. Yes, we love, we offer Gospel grace remembering we were not born Christians and “no one is good, no not one”; “We all fall short of God’s glorious standard”. But that does not mean we make concessions for those who continue to live short of that standard and actually prefer and celebrate it. It sounds harsh, but Jesus said he came to bring a sword. Don’t know what else to say about it really.

    • mike ritter

      Thanks for this reply. I couldn’t have put it better.

      I think too many believers have gotten used to an us vs. them mentality.

      Like you stated, we can preach the homosexuality is sin and pray for the redemption of sinners.

      In a civil society, we can recognize the rights of others.

    • Ivory

      While I too know those who have been hurt by Christians because they are homosexuals – my experience differs dramatically.
      I, once, before God saved me had many, many gay friends because my career is in the Arts and there is a large homosexual presence in this industry.
      After God saved me, I struggled to understand His design of sexuality and family as it pertained to my friends. The more I read His Word, and was changed by His Word and Spirit, the more I came to realize that before salvation I had bought in to the lie of the world. Quite natural and expected for an unbeliever. I dialogued with my gay friends for a few years in healthy talking about my new Christian/biblical beliefs and how I was being changed.
      We still remained friends – socializing and working together, etc.
      But, as the years have passed (God saved me in 1996) and my beliefs have not changed – even though I have shown no less love or difference for my gay friends – all but just a handful have ousted me from their lives and circle of friends – not because I’ve ever once treated them in any way hateful or bigoted – but simply because I believe God and His Word on sexuality and marriage.
      I have been called a hateful, intolerant bigot and simply excluded because of my Christian beliefs.

      I also will not as a musician participate in gay marriage or gay union ceremonies. That has cost me and I have been the outcast in the professional circles I was once welcomed in.
      I do believe that the day is coming when I, too, like the baker and other cases where Christians, due to their beliefs, will be fined, businesses ruined and eventually jail will come.

      The fact is that the large majority of the gay community does not want to befriend or be friends with Christians who believe in God’s order of His world.
      They have become the most intolerant while the loudest crying for tolerance – only the tolerance they espouse is full acceptance and applause for their lifestyle by Christians.

    • Mark

      “A State that legally endorses and enforces (their view of) God’s view of human sexuality and sexual practices? Is cohabitation outlawed in this State? Is adultery punishable by death in this State?

      “I would not want to live in this State, because most likely it would be hardened to the gospel in different but more subtle and insidious ways by breeding a culture of fear, homophobia and self-righteousness.

      “Do we want a State where everyone agrees with us?”

      God created a state such as this in Old Testament Israel. Do you think God was wrong? Do you fancy yourself more holy than God?

    • http://zackskrip.blogspot.com Zack Skrip

      Jonathon,

      Thanks for responding. As to the “Free State” issue, I believe Dr. Murray’s point is there may be a state that allows true freedom of religion, that is freedom for people to express their beliefs, live in light of those beliefs and not be jailed over it. I don’t believe he was saying there should be a state where homosexuality, adultery, or fornication was a punishable offence. I could be mistaken, but that’s how I read it.

      • http://headhearthand.org/blog/ David Murray

        Thanks Zack. You read me correctly.

    • DM

      Jonathan,

      Some of what you have to say is provocative in a good way. But…

      “A State that legally endorses and enforces (their view of) God’s view of human sexuality and sexual practices? Is cohabitation outlawed in this State? Is adultery punishable by death in this State?”

      This is not what David is envisioning (at least, that’s not what he said in this post). Nobody is talking about criminalizing cohabitation or adultery or any other kind of sin. What we are talking about is whether the state should recognize only monogamous, heterosexual marriages.

      • http://headhearthand.org/blog/ David Murray

        And about whether those who refuse to take part in other kinds of “marriages” should be criminalized.

        • a voice

          It is not our will but God’s whether or not we live in a State that “agrees” with us. We should pray for the spiritual freedom of all, and not “criminalization” of those we feel threaten maligning short-sighted doctrine. I was saved because God was gracious enough to put loving Christians in my life who embraced me. I was thankfully not strong-armed by the State, which would have made for an inauthentic profession of faith.

    • http://headhearthand.org/blog/ David Murray

      Jonathan,

      Thanks for your comment. I appreciate the spirit in which you wrote. Obviously everyone’s personal experience is different. I’m largely speaking of the leaders and campaigners, the public face of the homosexual movement, those who are leading the charge against Christians.

      Where I do agree with you Jacob is in the terrible mistreatment of homosexuals, especially in some areas, and even by professing Christians. I think we can work together to change that and I admit neither I nor the church in general has done enough there.

      On the basis of what’s already happening in other countries, and beginning to happen in the USA, we have grounds to believe that the homosexual movement is not only wanting to be tolerated or even accepted, but given preferential treatment and the right to penalize anyone who disagrees or witholds 100% support. That obviously results in justifiable fear. Christians should be allowed to disagree with what God disagrees with and not to suffer financial, social, and legal penalties. If that’s not hate, I don’t know what hate is.

      I agree with you that homosexuals have been mistreated by professing Christians. We can dialogue about how to address these injustices without perpetrating injustices on others.

      The question about civil rights, especially medical access and inheritance rights, can be addressed without hijacking marriage. However, if you read the literature of the homosexual movement, you will discover that nothing short of marriage will suffice because nothing short of marriage communicates equal approval of heterosexual and homosexual relationships. The civil rights push was always a stepping stone.

      Re #3 see Zach’s comment below.

      Re #4 see http://www.cardus.ca/blog/2013/02/this-is-ultra-tolerance That’s where we’re going. I believe the legalizing of gay marriage emboldens and multiplies this kind of behavior.

      Appreciate your thoughts and questions.

      David.

    • sra

      Thank you Jonathan McIntosh for speaking rationally – if too humbly. Speak louder and clearer with your voice of reason, please drown out these others.

    • john

      jonathan you are guilty. not of defending gays (yes you do) or not of criticizing christians (yes you do) or speaking contrary to the bible (yes you do). BUT you are guilty–of situation ethics. The circumstances (CIRCUMSTANCES) do not justify altering the morality. you argue exactly (EXACTLY) the same as the pro abortion advocates. the situation justifies changing the morality and therefore the law. WRONG

      • 邱蔓霞

        你好,我觉得你的想法对我和有别的看法的别的人不太好了。请你当一个很好的人。让别的人说一说不一样的想法,别说别的人都不对。

    • Sarah

      I completely agree with you. I have held the same views for awhile. I, as well as many other young people, think that this issue is mostly a problem of justice. I have two best friends who are gay. I don’t want them to not be able to have the opportunity for happiness that I can have. Mostly what a person does with their life-be saved by God, go to church-is their choice. We can preach all that we want to against these actions, but we can’t deny people of their rights, which is what I have a problem with. How would denying people of happiness be showing God’s love?

      I do have a problem with the church’s performance of marriages possibly being regulated by the government, however, and I think that’s why our government has been somewhat hesitant to go “all the way” with this, because of the supposed separation of church and state.

  • Susan Z.

    Hello,

    Just wanted to also add my two pennies by stating that I too feel that we are spiraling downward…but know that we have been warned that these things would happen. Romans chapter one tells us about the downward effects within a culture when it rejects God, and homosexuality is a huge sign of the culture’s downward trend and destruction, a huge red flag. I’ve read the other comments….I can see that also about the pastor refusing to perform a “gay marriage” (still no such thing in God’s book) If that sounds “insensitive” it’s better than lying about it and thereby watching all involved go to hell without our warning. It isn’t loving to gently nudge people to that eternal fate. God forgives those who repent, whatever the sin, and isn’t a respecter of persons. We all need to confess our sins and receive forgiveness through repentance, by God’s mercy and grace.

  • J. Parnell McCarter

    There are enough professedly reformed Christians in a number of West Michigan communities to turn the communities professedly reformed Christian and a refuge for reformed Christians **if** by God’s grace the reformed Christian churches in these communities were to call for such. But will they? https://www.facebook.com/groups/425606197512052/

  • Nicolette

    You included the example where the baker refuses to make a cake for a gay couple. Isn’t it a double standard to refuse to do so for a gay couple but to make one for a couple that say, for example, co-habited before marriage? I just wonder whether it is really our duty as Christians to refuse services to a gay couple, simply because they are gay and we disagree with their lifestyle. What is your opinion on this matter? What does the Bible say about this?

    • Mark Macdonald

      Nicolette

      The difference, of course, is that marriage is the Biblical answer for the co-habiting couple. So there is no double-standard in a pastor performing their marriage ceremony, while opposing gay marriage.

      • Nicolette

        Yes, I understand that, but when I say “services” I am thinking in more general terms (such as the baking the cake example, Dr. Murray used). I am not wondering about whether a pastor should marry a gay couple (obviously the Bible condemns that and it would be a violation of a pastor’s conscience) but I wonder about other areas of life. What about employing someone who is gay? Those are some of the questions I wonder about.

        • Susan Z.

          The cake was for a “gay wedding” cake, so the same would apply to the pastor performing the “ceremony”. It would still support an action that is insupportable by the scriptures. And yes, it will be deemed “hate crimes”, perilous times are now.

        • k

          I agree with you–what if the cake was for a straight couple that was 2 different religions (say, Christian and Muslim or Christian and agnostic), thereby being unequally yoked and disobeying scripture. Should you refuse to bake the cake in that case, too?

        • http://headhearthand.org/blog/ David Murray

          Many people will feel that they are involved in the marriage and approving of it by providing services to it. I believe that people should have freedom of conscience over this and not be criminalized. There are plenty other bakers, photographers, etc.

          Much of this discussion is really about who gets to define freedom. We do need someone to do that as one person’s liberty often impinges on another person’s. Who gets to decide the priority? That’s why we need God’s objective moral standards.

        • WDO

          Nicolette, I’m not especially learned in these things, but I think R.C. Sproul Jr. has it correct here:

          http://rcsprouljr.com/blog/ask-rc/rc-christians-moral-obligation-boycott-companies-support-unbiblical-causes/

          “Paul, however, still has no objection to buying the meat offered for sale by idolaters. Why? Because we are buying meat, not idolatry. We are not guilty for what they do with the money we give them. When we trade our money for meat, the meat is ours and the money is not. In like manner, if the Home Store supports gay causes, or Red Crawfish restaurant supports Planned Parenthood, I am not guilty of supporting either if I buy some plywood, or a steamed lobster. I am buying wood and seafood.”

          By extension if you hire someone who is gay, you’re buying labor, not homosexuality.

          The spousal benefits question, however, gets a lot trickier…

      • vance

        HAHA….what nonsense…nice justification because it fits your line of thinking. Nicolette, don’t be fooled here, these people are leading you astray.

        • WDO

          Can you clarify? She makes a valid point and an asks an honest question.

    • Tami

      Good comment! I own a bridal store, and find that most of my customers are living together without the benefit of marriage. That is not my personal moral conviction.

      There is no way you can be in business and only serve those who agree with you.

      • http://headhearthand.org/blog/ David Murray

        I agree it’s a difficult question, Tami, but shouldn’t people have freedom of conscience on this? They chose to lose the business but they shouldn’t be criminalized for it. We all set limits on who we would do business with. Unless it’s a sinful choice – e.g. refusing to serve people because of non-moral reasons like race, nationality, etc – then there should be liberty to do so.

    • http://musicfrombrokenchords.wordpress.com Teresa

      I really struggle with that same question Nicolette and I don’t really see how that isn’t hypocritical.

      • DM

        The difference is that marriage (as created by God–i.e., between a man and a woman) is something that scripture holds up as a means of grace–as a picture of Christ and the church. We can celebrate weddings because after the marriage, the husband and wife can live together and honor God. When you are talking about two men, the relationship does not reflect Christ and the church and the very relationship is itself sinful. In other words, pre-marital (heterosexual) cohabitation is sin, but it is not sin after the two are married (leaving aside the issue of whether the cohabitators are regenerate or not); homosexual cohabitation is sin and will continue to be sin regardless of whether there was some “wedding” ceremony or not.

        Now, it is more difficult if you think about a second marriage that is clearly forbidden by scripture, for instance. But most evangelicals would say that if you found yourself in a heterosexual marriage that was forbidden by scripture that you should nonetheless stay married. (This is because divorce is forbidden as well, and the belief is that your decision to get married, while sinful, can be repented of and forgiven. At that point, you would seem to be disobeying scripture again if you were to get divorced.)

        The cohabitating (hetero) couple was not necessarily sinning by getting married; the divorcee would very likely be sinning by getting remarried; the homo couple would be sinning by getting “married.” This should inform the way we think about what our comfort level is in celebrating and/or facilitating the wedding event.

    • a voice

      Jesus broke bread with sinners. I believe it is unloving and not biblical for us to refuse to serve others simply because we disagree with their actions. Especially if we want to be like him/or have him live in us (however you choose to word it). That is the difficulty of being a Christian isn’t it? Christianity is uncomfortable sometimes. We are called to serve and love, not hate and ostracize. Thank you for pointing out this hypocrisy.

  • adrian condrea

    Thank you David for the article.

  • http://centralthaimissions.com Eric

    Flee to the land of opportunity and freedom… Come to south east Asia! (actually, really.)

    • WDO

      I’ve heard that. I remember ten years ago a college buddy telling me that if things go base over apex in the US he was heading straight for South Korea.

  • http://highplainsparson.wordpress.com Riley

    1. Good observations, advice.

    2. It won’t happen soon in most of the U. S. since over half the states have outlawed “gay marriage” in their constitutions.

    3. I may be an exaggeration to say the “world” is changing, since thus far this is mainly a European/North American problem.

    • Kathleen

      You’re mostly correct. The civilized, secular areas of the world — Scandinavia, Europe, Australia, certain parts of Latin and Central America, and most of north America — already have, or will very soon have, marriage equality.

      The world’s poorest, most undereducated, repressive and superstitious areas — a good deal of Africa, the Middle East, sub-Asia, and the Bible Belt segment of America — will likely remain ignorant and religious backwaters for a long time.

      Think San Francisco and Paris and Oslo on one hand… vs Mississippi and Uganda and Somalia on the other hand.

      • Na Yeo

        Kathleen, your trolling is obvious.

  • http://www.awatchmanonthewall.blogspot.com ali

    We cannot run and we cannot hide, but we can:

    GET READY AND BE PREPARED -

    Read The Word
    Study the Word
    and P-R-A-Y.!!!

  • http://ReformedMinistrytoMormons Andrew Price

    David , many thanks for the excellent article.Just by way of clarification the same sex marriage bill has not yet become law.Tuesday’s vote was only the second reading in the House of Commons.There are many months of legislative wrangle before it may become law. It is anticipated there will be stiff opposition in the House of Lords who possibly might block it.Although it has to be conceded humanly speaking things look very bleak . I am very much involved in the marriage campaign and we were greatly heartened by the fact over half of the Parliamentary Conservative voted against the Government.With respect to the American situation those Christians who supported Romney made a grave mistake and should repent of it. Had they sat on the sidelines they would now have been in a stronger position post General Election.

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  • Pursiomniapura

    If God sees fit to bring gross darkness upon this country through a people of debased minds, believers best be prepared to endure much worse than a prison sentence. Perhaps a society so highly culured & refined as ours cannot imagine such a time …but the day may yet come when being a true Christian may cost us our very lives.
    Many have prayed for revival in the US but have we forgetten that a spiritual revival is more likely to arise when our freedoms tend to decline. When Israel prospered, she fell away but when God brought hardship & bondage upon her, she returnd to her God.
    Are we in America that much different?

    • vance

      The only debased minds are people like you, that spread hate and idiocy.

      • http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com lyn

        vance,

        Let me refer you to the word of God, Rom 1:23′ And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
        Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
        Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
        Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
        Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
        Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient’

        According to God’s word, those who have debased minds are those who practice sin, including the sin of homosexuality. Bible theologian John Gill provides excellent commentary on verse 28,
        ‘a vain empty mind, worthless, good for nothing devoid of all true knowledge and judgment; incapable of approving what is truly good, or of disapproving that which is evil; a mind that has lost all conscience of things, and is disapproved of by God, and all good men.’ This is a very scary reality, one we see all around us. The Bible commands sinners to repent and trust in what Christ has done to appease God’s wrath at sin. The first step is to realize your grievous sins against a holy God, and to cry out for mercy; much like the tax collector did in Luke’s gospel, ‘O God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’

  • Duane

    This post got some of us faithful readers out of the closet and decide to write. This issue certainly appears to be gaining more momentum each year. Although I appreciated the post, I thought some of the future predictions may be over reaching. I could be off on this analogy, but not every OB/GYN has to perform an abortion although abortion is legal. They may lose opportunities and certain hospital privileges, but they can still practice without restraints. And the pro-life movement may be gaining ground in possibly over-turning some states laws on abortion. As Christians, we can express our views based on God’s word while leaning on the Holy Spirit to convict and change hearts and lives. Homosexuality may settle in as the norm, but the greater danger to the church is our indifference to the sins all around us that become “normal.”

    • http://headhearthand.org/blog/ David Murray

      Duane: I accept I’m “prophesying” somewhat but not without some basis based on what is happening in other countries. The difference between pro-abortionists and homosexual movement is that the latter want to deny Christians the privilege of refusing to be involved in their choices. In fact they want us criminalized.

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  • vance

    Wow,

    I am disgusted by this post. It amazes me more and more every time I read about supposed Christians writing this sort of nonsense. You are not a good person, no matter how much you think your Christianity makes you one. There is a reason Jesus didn’t preach against homosexuals, because Christians are to love everyone, that’s EVERYONE, regardless of their lifestyle. You are spreading idiocy, hate, and judgment, and you sir are a hypocrite. You are very ignorant and your goal is to make kids grow up with complete misinformation and bigotry. I am appalled at you sir.

    • http://rockedbygrace.blogspot.com/ Mike

      Did we read the same post?

    • http://www.theparchment.net William F Hill Jr

      Vance,

      Would this be the kind of love you just displayed in your comment that is latent with name calling?

    • TR

      Hi Vance,
      Did you think the point of Christianity was to think oneself morally superior to others? Jesus addressed this head-on:

      Luke 18:9-14:
      To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everyone else, Jesus told this parable: “Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

      “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

      “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”

      Only those who know themselves NOT to be a “good person” can be Christians. Certainly, people seeking to assert their moral superiority are often drawn toward religious involvement, since it can provide a context for constructing a plausible veneer of self-justification, just like the Pharisee in Jesus’ parable. But it is only those who know themselves to be sinners – in all the various manifestations their sin may take – who are capable of understanding the Good News of who Jesus is and what he has accomplished.

    • Michael

      Vance, I missed you Scripture references…

    • Kathy Snyder

      Vance,
      The post is not calling us to hate homosexuals. Jesus calls us to love each person, but that does not include loving sinful activity. If my child is committing the sin of lying or gluttony, for example, the most loving thing I can do is graciously guide her to a more scriptural way of living.

    • http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com lyn

      Vance,

      I must point out your error in stating the Lord never preached against homosexuality, for that I take you to Matthew 15:19-20, “For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man.” Here the Lord states what defiles, or makes unclean. We see defilement originates in the heart of man, meaning ‘the soul or mind, as it is the fountain and seat of the thoughts, passions, desires, appetites, affections, purposes, endeavours’. Now I direct your attention to the word ‘fornications’, which, in the original Greek language is ‘porneia’ and is defined by Thayer’s Greek definitions as ‘adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.’ Notice, those who practice any/all of these sins listed are rendered unclean by Christ; in Revelation 21:27 it clearly states those who are defiled will not enter into God’s kingdom.

      You have a one-sided ‘god’, a god who is all loving; that is NOT the God of the Bible. What you fail to comprehend is that God is holy, holy, holy, and righteous; because of His holiness He cannot, He will not tolerate sin. He must judge sin according to His word. God has called men with men and women with women an abomination {see Lev. 18:22}, it is unnatural {read Romans 1:26,27}, and states this from 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you.”
      Look at the last verse, ‘such WERE some of you’, this speaks of a turning away from sin, a forsaking of sin. This is only possible if God has re-birthed you, ‘ye must be born again’ John 3:3. This is a supernatural and mighty work of God the Spirit in the heart of sinners, causing them to repent of their sins, to forsake and leave them. Christ gives sinners the power over the bondage of sin, He sets us free {see John 8:34, 36}

      To not tell the whole counsel of God to a sinner is indeed unloving; to tell sinners they are in need of grace and mercy because of their sins, that the Lord Jesus commands sinners to repent of their sins and trust in His atoning work on the cross, that Christ is their only hope…this is love. As a former lesbian saved solely by God’s grace because Christ made atonement for my sins, and God has gifted me with life eternal, I can tell you that the word of the Lord is clear; if you continue on in your sins you will perish. Christ states in Luke 13:3, ‘unless ye repent, ye shall perish’.

    • sra

      Vance, I agree wholeheartedly.

      appalling.
      shameful.
      and so very very wrong.

      • http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com lyn

        sra,

        are you a homosexual?

        • a voice

          what a disrespectful response…

  • Erik

    David, well done !

  • Barbara

    Jesus said to, “love God and to love others.” Pretty simple, isn’t it? I don’t read “love them IF…they aren’t gay or lesbian”, “love them IF…they believe exactly like we do.” It’s not up to us to convict the heart…it’s up to Jesus…fill them with God’s love and then let Him take care of their heart and mind. We are only God’s messenger…we are not God!

    • Michael

      On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.

    • Brian

      Sorry Barbara- you’re, at best, unhelpful. Psalms 5:5 ‘the foolish shall not stand in thu sight, thou hatest all workers of iniquity’. The unbiblical clique of ‘God loves the sinner, hates the sin’ is simply false. Outside of a regenerate heart, secured by the blood of Christ, we are at enmity with God, workers of iniquity, and horrificly hated by a Holy and Just God. I’m sorry if you’ve been yet another statistic of watered down theology in this country, the ‘pray this prayer and if you really mean it you’re saved’ garbage that is sending people to hell every minute. Paul is explicitly clear in Romans, reiterating Gods view of homosexuality. The problem is our reprobate hearts don’t want to hear it. Yes tell those precious souls the truth, but it’s not love God, love people. Pray with Paul that you wish yourself accursed for the sake of your fellow kinsman, that the guy and lesbian community in this country would experience the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, that they would be brought to repentance and saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Stop loving them straight to hell.

      • http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com lyn

        Excellent points Brian, so many who name the name of Christ have little understanding of His word. The bible is clear, God is angry with the wicked every day {Psalm 7:11}. What is sorely lacking in our day is an understanding of the attributes of God as well as an understanding of His sovereignty [especially in the saving of souls], the biblical account of soteriology, and the doctrines of grace. Jesus is presented as a loving, kind, and gentle Savior, that He is. However, look at just two verses {there are more, as you well know} from Revelation 6:16-17 ‘calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb,for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” What provokes such wrath? Is it not sin? The God of the Bible is not taught in most churches, and many Christians do not delve into His word and desire to know and understand the God they claim to believe in. Instead, they take pastors and preachers at their word, never being good Bereans and seeing if what is being proclaimed from the pulpit is in fact true.
        Essential doctrines are missing from the pulpit – doctrines on mans’ own depravity, repentance, regeneration, and sanctification. Even the Gospel is perverted by adding a man made work to it, which makes it null and void. There is no understanding of the ministry of the Holy Spirit in bringing a sinner to repentance and regenerating them because we’ve robbed Him of His ministry by asking sinners to make decisions or invite Jesus into their heart. Sin is misunderstood and re-defined by the world, few understand that all sin is a bondage and all are enslaved to it until Christ frees them. There definitely is a famine in the land, a famine of truth…

    • Susan Z.

      Eze 3:17 Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
      Eze 3:18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
      Eze 3:19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
      Eze 3:20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
      Eze 3:21 Nevertheless if thou warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he doth not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also thou hast delivered thy soul.

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  • Mark

    The Asa option:

    1 Kings 15

    9 And in the twentieth year of Jeroboam king of Israel reigned Asa over Judah.

    10 And forty and one years reigned he in Jerusalem. And his mother’s name was Maachah, the daughter of Abishalom.

    11 And Asa did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, as did David his father.

    12 And he took away the sodomites out of the land, and removed all the idols that his fathers had made.

  • Roger

    I have a question. Why does the government get to decide who can and can’t be married? Is there any Biblical grounds for this?

    Also how do you understand 1st Corinthians 5:9-12? In regards to “gay marriage” my understanding would be to fight it in the church, but I am to have no say in what unbelievers do. Our job is to warn them of the judgement and to point them to Christ not to try to force a moral code upon them.

    http://www.esvbible.org/1+Corinthians+5/

    • Susan Z.

      Just curious, Roger….I understand what 1st Corinthians 5 counsels us to do in regards to believers and unbelievers…but do you think a pastor should officiate at a “gay wedding”? Where do you see that in scripture?

      • Roger

        No I don’t think a pastor should officiate a “gay wedding”. I also think pastors should not officiate a wedding of anyone who has been divorced (I hold to the permanence view of marriage).

        • RunGirlRunLA

          Wow … Roger’s statement taken at face value, if “permanence” was the only view of marriage to be upheld, I pity the poor spouses who’ve left their marriages because of suffering severe abuse or rampant infidelity. The Lord can and does bless those who re-marry after a divorce; it happens all the time.

          While some of Murray’s points are arguable, he is spot-on with the key word: PREPARE. His first, second and last points are perhaps the ones we need to consider the most. Although most governments may take years to pass pro-gay marriage legislation, the end may come sooner than we realize. Pray for our pastors to not cave in. Pray for one another to be salt and light to coworkers, family and friends. Pray that God would prepare even now the hearts of the gay people in our lives who need to hear the Gospel.

          • Roger

            Hi Run Girl Run, I feel no more sorry for a person who spouse left or b/c of rampant infidelity not being able to remarry than I do our brothers and sisters, in Christ, who can not marry b/c the struggle with homosexuality (and confess it to be a sin).

            The question should not be “how does this make me feel?” but rather “what do the Scriptures teach?”

    • http://headhearthand.org/blog/ David Murray

      The problem here Roger is that homosexuals are forcing their moral code on Christians by threatening with legal and other consequences if we do not cooperate with them.

      • Roger

        Hi David thanks for the reply. I read your site often but this is the first time I left a comment :)

        I agree with you that the problem is legal and other types of consequences. But do you think we can do anything to change that? My church (a PCA) does not baptize active homosexuals and yet we are not sued over it (as far as I know anyways). Could we “redefine” marriage to make it a religious act like baptism? And if so would that help any?

  • Kathleen

    This article seems to be more overblown hysteria and an unhealthy martyr complex than factual reality.

    You can tell us about how persecuted you are when Christians suffer the same discrimination that they eagerly practiced and advocated against gay people: i.e. Christians are not allowed to marry, Christians are kicked out of the military for being Christian, Christians are fired from their jobs for being Christian, or barred from teaching school because they are Christian, etc.

    THAT’s when you can cry persecution. Merely no longer being able to persecute gays does NOT mean that you yourself are being persecuted.

    • http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com lyn

      Kathleen,

      As for homosexuals not being allowed to marry, God has defined marriage for us in Genesis 2:24, ‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.’ Christians do not ‘persecute’ homosexuals, we defend God’s truth against sin. The bible condemns all sin, including the practice of men with men and women with women. To tell a homosexual that they are sinning against God is not discrimination, it is done in hopes God will bring them to repentance and save them.
      Homosexuals do not have a right to marry because the definition of marriage clearly states who does have that right, this is not a discriminatory act, this is a covenant ordained by Almighty God Himself. You have no right to re-define what God has already laid out in His word.
      Throughout history, Christians have been martyred, jailed, and shunned by the world because they stood firm on the word of God. When sin is exposed, sinners respond in one of two ways; either they repent and believe on the Lord Jesus or they attack the messenger[s] verbally and physically.
      As for being fired from a job, I was fired from my job of 13 years for being a Christian and speaking truth. As a former lesbian saved by God’s grace because Christ atoned for my sins, I can say truly when I lived in sin, I suffered nothing except self-inflicted torment from my sinful ways. As a born again believer, I have suffered name-calling, job loss, been shunned by co-workers and family members, and yet, it does not EVEN compare to what my Lord suffered for me, or what my brothers and sisters in Christ suffer in parts of the world like China and Russia where they must meet in secret to worship God, where having a bible in your possession could mean death. I grow tired of hearing the whining of homosexuals as they demand ‘rights’ that they are not entitled to, your sexual sin does not give you a right to demand to re-define the biblical covenant of marriage!
      I do ask the Lord to be gracious to you, that He would cause you to see how wicked you are and bring you to repentance and gift you with eternal life. The only hope a sinner has is in the Lord Jesus Christ and His death, burial and resurrection. He atoned for sin and reconciles sinners back to a God who is holy and righteous and will not allow anything sinful into His eternal kingdom. God saves those who are broken and contrite, ‘The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.’ Psalm 51:17

      • James Bradshaw

        The Bible says that to divorce is to commit adultery (Luke 16:18, Matthew 5:32, Matthew 19:9) with VERY few exceptions. So do you think that divorce, in those instances, should also be illegal? In other words: should legal divorce only be permitted when there’s been infidelity? Further, should marriage between Christians and Jews be illegal? After all, doesn’t the Bible condemn being “yoked” with unbelievers?

        • http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com lyn

          James, you quote the bible, then ask what I think. The Bible is not open to personal interpretation. Divorce is applicable if there is infidelity, or if the spouse is an unbeliever and insists on it. As for your quoting 2 Corinthians 6:14, ‘Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?’ I refer you to commentary from Matthew Henry, ‘The caution or exhortation itself, not to mingle with unbelievers, not to be unequally yoked with them, 2Co_6:14. Either—
          1. In stated relations. It is wrong for good people to join in affinity with the wicked and profane; these will draw different ways, and that will be galling and grievous. Those relations that are our choice must be chosen by rule; and it is good for those who are themselves the children of God to join with those who are so likewise; for there is more danger that the bad will damage the good than hope that the good will benefit the bad.
          2. In common conversation. We should not yoke ourselves in friendship and acquaintance with wicked men and unbelievers. Though we cannot wholly avoid seeing, and hearing, and being with such, yet we should never choose them for our bosom-friends.
          3. Much less should we join in religious communion with them; we must not join with them in their idolatrous services, nor concur with them in their false worship, nor any abominations; we must not confound together the table of the Lord and the table of devils, the house of God and the house of Rimmon. The apostle gives several good reasons against this corrupt mixture. (1.) It is a very great absurdity, 2Co_6:14, 2Co_6:15. It is an unequal yoking of things together that will not agree together; as bad as for the Jews to have ploughed with an ox and an ass or to have sown divers sorts of grain intermixed. What an absurdity is it to think of joining righteousness and unrighteousness, or mingling light and darkness, fire and water, together! Believers are, and should be, righteous; but unbelievers are unrighteous. Believers are made light in the Lord, but unbelievers are in darkness; and what comfortable communion can these have together? Christ and Belial are contrary one to the other; they have opposite interests and designs, so that it is impossible there should be any concord or agreement between them. It is absurd, therefore, to think of enlisting under both; and, if the believer has part with an infidel, he does what in him lies to bring Christ and Belial together. (2.) It is a dishonour to the Christian’s profession (2Co_6:16); for Christians are by profession, and should be in reality, the temples of the living God – dedicated to, and employed for, the service of God, who has promised to reside in them, to dwell and walk in them, to stand in a special relation to them, and take a special care of them, that he will be their God and they shall be his people. Now there can be no agreement between the temple of God and idols. Idols are rivals with God for his honour, and God is a jealous God, and will not give his glory to another. (3.) There is a great deal of danger in communicating with unbelievers and idolators, danger of being defiled and of being rejected; therefore the exhortation is (2Co_6:17) to come out from among them, and keep at a due distance, to be separate, as one would avoid the society of those who have the leprosy or the plague, for fear of taking infection, and not to touch the unclean thing, lest we be defiled. Who can touch pitch, and not be defiled by it? We must take care not to defile ourselves by converse with those who defile themselves with sin; so is the will of God, as we ever hope to be received, and not rejected, by him. (4.) It is base ingratitude to God for all the favours he has bestowed upon believers and promised to them, 2Co_6:18. God has promised to be a Father to them, and that they shall be his sons and his daughters; and is there a greater honour or happiness than this? How ungrateful a thing then must it be if those who have this dignity and felicity should degrade and debase themselves by mingling with unbelievers! Do we thus requite the Lord, O foolish and unwise?’ M. Henry

    • sra

      well said Kathleen.

      • http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com lyn

        sra,

        I would like to ask you two questions, 1. Do you believe in the God of the Bible?
        2. Are you a homosexual?

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  • James Bradshaw

    For years, fundamentalist Christians have:
    1) insisted that gays should NOT be free to their own relationships as they see fit, hence the opposition to the Supreme Court’s Lawrence v Texas ruling
    2) opposed any law that protected gays in employment and housing (just as Mormons and Catholics are for their CHOSEN religious lifestyles).
    3) fought ANY legal recognition of same-sex couples
    4) slandered gays and lesbians from the pulpit, insisting we are all drug-addled pedophiles

    Look, you can believe what you want about homosexuality (just like there are fundamentalists who believe all Jews are going to fry in Hell and think that human slavery is morally acceptable because the Bible allows it).

    You just can’t insist that the laws are constructed to only protect YOUR beliefs and YOUR lives. I’m all about tolerance, but so long as your beliefs infringe upon our lives and freedoms, expect a conflict.

    • http://iamhis-lyn.blogspot.com lyn

      James, it appears you assume much here, just because someone claims to be Christian does not mean they are. True regenerate Christians should not attack, they will give biblical truth concerning sin. In this case, the sin of homosexuality.
      As for the drug abuse accusations, this I know; every lesbian and homosexual I befriended during the time I spent in that dark sin {close to 20 years} had issues with drugs, alcohol, infidelity, jealousy, continual arguing. I have seen the inside of this type of life, I know firsthand what it brings about. I no longer have a reason to lie, to cover up this horrific sin and try to persuade society how ‘normal’ it is…I know better.

      As for sexual sin, which would be any sex outside the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman established by God, the Creator of all mankind, all sexual sin will be punished by God. He created all, He has a right to lay down laws for all to follow, and with good reason. When the gift of family is lost, when anything goes, you see what we presently have…a meltdown. Dysfunctional families, people living together, women having children by multiple men out of wedlock, homosexuals demanding a right to raise children; no one realizes the horrific affects this sort of ‘out of balance’ living produces. Women have a specific role as a wife and mother, men have a specific role as a husband and father; together it brings balance. When these roles are muddied, twisted, and tossed out, we see out of control children, no morals, no values, no respect, no understanding of what family was meant to be.
      And yet, society lashes out at God and His commands, as if we know better than He does. I think a good honest look around will tell you how ‘smart’ man is.

      The bible never condones human slavery, this is a false accusation by you. We also see instances of adultery, murder, polygamy, incest, child sacrifices, etc; does that mean the bible allows for these things? Certainly not, what it does reflect is the wickedness of sinful mankind.

      As for what I believe about homosexuality, only those God gifts with faith will believe His truth, all others will mock, lash out, rebel, and defiantly reject. I used to live the lesbian life, rejecting God and His truth, mocking and lashing out, just as you are doing. This is the true nature of every person ever born – God hating, Christ rejecting, sin loving. Praise God for His endless grace, His kindness towards sinners like me who do nothing but rebel, reject, and sin against Him.

      As for you being about tolerance, that sounds good until you’re confronted by a Holy God with your sins, then you lash out and scream intolerant. What is your hope James? When death calls on you and you leave this world, without Jesus Christ you will step into utter terror, fully aware of your surroundings, fully conscience of where you are. You will be in outer darkness – ‘Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death; A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.’ Job 10:21,22
      Commentary from theologian John Gill describes this – ‘ a land of “darkness”, a very dark one, where the body separated from the soul is deprived of all light; where the sun, moon, and stars, are never seen; nor is there the least crevice that light can enter in at, or be seen by those that dwell in those shades, which are “the shadow of death” itself; deadly shades, thick and gross ones, the darkest shades, where death itself is, or dead men are, destitute of light and life; where no pleasure, comfort, and conversation, can be had; and therefore a land in itself most undesirable.’
      From Matthew Henry, ‘It is a fixed state, whence we shall not return ever again to live such a life as we now live, Job_7:10. At death we must bid a final farewell to this world.

      You will not escape death James, will you die mocking God, hating His word, denying His sovereign authority over you?

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  • http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org peacebyjesus

    Thanks for posting this, and i placed it on Free Republic, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/2990119/posts, though i had to explain to one poster who saw this as being Vichy conservatism, that it was not a call to retreat or accommodation, but on how to continue a resistance movement without compromise.

    God made man and women uniquely compatible and complimentary, in more ways than the physical aspect, and only joined them in marriage, which Jesus Himself specified. (Gn. 2:18-24; Mt. 19:4-6) Homosexual unions are only condemned by God in the Scriptures by design and decree, in principle and in precept.

    And attempts to force homosexual relations into passages it does not belong extends even to pro homosexual apologetics on the Bible, the specious nature of which http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Homosex_versus_the_Bible.htmlHomosexuality reveals, and i find the manipulation of the Bible by them to be more serious than even homosexuality.

    However, some of the first Christians were likely former homosexuals, (1Cor. 6:9-11) and there is room at the cross for all who want the Lord Jesus over sin, and believe upon Him to save them who died for them, and rose again. And who thus are baptized and follow Him, to the glory of God.

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    You completed certain good points there. I did a search on the topic and found the majority of people will go along with with your blog

  • Jeremiah

    Hi Dr. Murray,

    I am thankful to God for your posts. I read them from Africa where I am serving (I’m born in the USA). Regarding your 5th point, this may sound strange, but Africa may be a place of refuge.

  • http://www.jeritanner.blogspot.com Jeri Tanner

    This is excellent, heart-wrenching and heart-warming. Thank you. Luke 21:36.

  • Paul Bell

    I have been telling on Paul Bell on Facebook ever since September of last year the forms said to be God and Jesus did come unto me and tell :: ALL ADMINISTRATORS OF GOVERNMENT SHALL BE JUDGED IN CHANGING ALL CURRENT LAWS UNTO GOD’S WILL. GOD HAS GIVEN HIS TRUE ANGERED FORM IN WARNING !! GOD HAS TOLD :: I TELL THEE I FEEL IT IS OF TIME TO START TO GATHER TOGETHER ALL THAT BELIEVE IN ME FOR ALL SHALL BE NEEDED IN FUTURE EVENTS THAT ARE YET TO COME. ALL ADMINISTRATORS OF PLACES OF WORSHIP SHALL BE JUDGED IN CHANGING OF NAME UNTO ( GOD’S WORD ) SO THERE SHALL BE NO MORE INDECISION; FOR TOO MANY HAVE BEEN LOST IN INDECISION BY THE DIVISION OF CHURCHES !! I HAVE BEEN UP ALL NIGHT POSTING GOD’S WORDS UNTO ME ; SO I JUST SAY GO TO Paul Bell on Facebook to Know God’s and Jesus’s words. For unless the money changers and ultra rich help this Nation all shall come to pass as told by God in person unto me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!