You Don't Have a Porn Problem | HeadHeartHand Blog

August 20, 2014 David Murray 25 comments

I’m sick and tired of hearing so many single and married men, even professing Christian men, talk so easily, casually, and nonchalantly about their “porn problem” or their “struggles with pornography.”

Porn use has become so common and “normal” that there’s not an ounce of stigma left in it. In fact, “confessing” your latest “fall” has become a fast-track to guaranteed sympathy, an arm round the shoulder, “Hey, none of us are perfect,” “Well, maybe we should think about tightening up accountability here and there…”

What happened to the “Yuk!” factor?

How about this for an alternative?

“What? You look at other people’s penises and vaginas in your spare time? For pleasure?”

I regret I have to be so coarse, but we need to do something to restore the shame and disgrace of this evil.

In fact, let’s go a bit further.

How about the next time some married or single Christian man (or woman) ambles up to you for a friendly chat about his (or her) “porn problem,” you reply, “You don’t have a porn problem! No, you have a masturbation problem.”

“Oh, pastor, don’t be so crude.”

“So it’s crude to say it, but not to do it?”

“Well, er…”

“By saying ‘I’m struggling with porn’ you are excusing yourself. You are blaming some distant pictures and pixels out there. But that’s just a means to an end. The real problem is not porn. It’s much closer to home. It’s between your legs.”

I could go on. I could get even more descriptive and graphic – using just medical terminology of course. Or, I could use some words I learned on the streets of Glasgow. But for the purposes of this blog post, let’s keep it within the realms of the Oxford English Dictionary. Although even that’s probably too shocking for many of us.

But that’s what we need. We need to be shocked again at the vileness of this sin. We need to see it for what it is, name it for what it is, and with the blessing of the Holy Spirit we might raise a new generation of men and women who will abhor this self-centered perversion of God’s created order.

Whatever you do, do not marry a masturbator (see clarification in comments below). Marriage rarely stops it. Indeed, many marriages have been ruined by it and by the fornication and adultery it almost always results in.

And if this post has sickened and disgusted you, good! That was the aim. Now take your nausea and disgust to the holy Lord Jesus Christ for pardon AND purging.

To paraphrase the Apostle John, “If we confess our masturbation, he is faithful and just to forgive us our masturbation and to cleanse us from all our masturbation!”

http://www.docsdining.blogspot.com/ Jason Kanz

David,
Yours is one of my favorite blogs. Head, heart, and hands down. You show a deep compassion for others and a depth of understanding that is rare.

For the most part, I agree with what you wrote here. The starkness of your language (which you admitted could be much more stark) I believe is important.

However, your third to last paragraph seems more hopeless to me. You counsel to not marry a masturbator, noting that it is unlikely it will stop with marriage and that it will give way to fornication and adultery. Given that the large majority of men (and increasingly women) masturbate, what hope does this offer? (Please hear me, I am not excusing this egregious sin). Also, can you point me to evidence that it “almost always” leads to fornication and adultery.

I think what you wrote here, while stark and startling, is very important to be said, but I wish that paragraph had been reconsidered.

Thank you for what you do.
- David Murray
  
  Thanks for your balanced comment, Jason. Maybe I should have been clearer in that paragraph. I wasn’t referring to someone who has sinner in this way in their past, but someone who is viewing porn and masturbating during courtship and even right up to marriage. From what I’ve seen, the person who demonstrates such total lack of self-control of their sexual desires during that period is not going to suddenly start exercising self-control once they are married. The desires may be subdued for a while as marriage provides an outlet, but the basic sin has not been dealt with and, from what I’ve seen (and heard from others), eventually will resurface and another “outlet” will be sought.
  
  Part of my reason for putting that sentence in is to urge young women (and their fathers) to confront this issue before they are married rather than having to do so afterwards with all the greater pain that’s involved. And it’s also to confront young men with the seriousness of this sin and the need to seek repentance and sanctification in this area BEFORE they are married.
  
  Hope that helps, Jason.
Glen

Thank, Dr. Murray, for your candor. I am convicted on two fronts. First is the call to hate my own sin more. By the grace of God I have been free from masturbation for over 7 years, though battles with lust still remain. Folly’s siren call to view pornographic images (any image that would incite lust, really) is still at times rather alluring. Ugh. May God grant further deliverance. On the other front, as I counsel those who struggle with lust, porn use and masturbation, I often find myself sympathizing with them (as I am truly no better than they), but in my sympathy find myself not painting their sin as black and heinous as Scripture does. Thanks for the reality check. May God continue to change me and those I counsel so we will love our Deliverer more and hate the sin that both enslaves us and separates us from God and others.
burzee2

Yet I bet you’re the kind of Christian to humbly talk about how impatient and angry and untrusting you are. Because, you know, it’s fine to talk about those sins and say you have an anger problem or whatever.

You’re also an idiot for saying it always results in fornication. Statistics?

Why, oh stupid fool, would Paul have counseled marriage for those who burn? It is better to marry than burn.

So why don’t you thank God you’re not tempted in this way, and keep your mouth shut about things you know not. Yes, it is a vile, hell deserving sin. So is your ignorance.
http://www.homeschoolonthecroft.com/ Homeschool on the Croft

You say, “What happened to the “Yuk!” factor?”

and “We need to be shocked again at the vileness of this sin.” .

I can assure you the Yuk factor is there. And the shock is still there…. I have to confess to finding these posts *very* hard to read I think of Ephesians 5:12. No matter how strongly you speak against things, the more often they’re spoken of in public, the more ‘accepted’ they become. That’s just the way of it :/ )
Great Post

On the contrary Jason, the last paragraph is just as important as the calling of sin, sin. Sin is vile and disgusting. Our sin, my sin, is vile and disgusting. Paraphrasing John in that way drives his point home, and lets you know that there is victory and forgiveness. In Christ, though we have sinned and are sinners, we are not defined by our sin. We are defined by our new life in Christ.
If what he as written is too harsh in its conclusion, consider it being Dr. Murray’s way of saying “Man up!” and calling a fool by his folly.

We should not kid ourselves, as sin shows what is in our heart. If you look at a woman lustfully Christ said you have committed adultery. There. Done. Guilty. The only next step left is to actually do it. Christ didn’t mince words, and in our compassion, and remembrance of our own sin we must be discerning not to sugar coat it or gloss over it. Sin is disgusting, we who were as disgusting as the leper are forgiven.
Prerequisite

So… In other words, are you saying that one needs to reach a deeper level of repentance and a profound level of sorrow and disgust as a prerequisite before coming to Christ for pardoning and pruning?
Simon Ward

So, all you courting Christian couples out there need to ask each other: “Do you masturbate?” If the answer is yes then end the courtship. Really? If that is so, then we need apply this criteria to all other sins. Also, the article seems to presume that all masturbation is linked to porn. It simply isn’t.
- David Murray
  
  As a father of two daughters, yes, I’ll be asking that question of any guy who is asking them to commit their hearts, bodies and souls to him. Blunt, yes. But I’m seeing too much pain and suffering result from failing to confront this particular habit before marriage.
  - Simon Ward
    
    I am a father of three daughters. If my wife’s parents had asked me that, I would have politely told them that they would be better advised to concentrate on perfecting their own walk with the Lord. How would you feel, I wonder, if any potential suitor’s parents asked your daughters whether they masturbated? How would you feel if your daughters said that they did? Don’t feel you have to respond unless you wish to, David.
    - David Murray
      
      Due to the day we live in, and the eruption of porn in the church, I’d be fine with all these questions. From what I’ve seen in recent years it’s one of the most important and consequential questions and yet rarely asked.
  - burzee2
    
    But if they have a little anger problem, or maybe struggle with humility, or aren’t the most trusting, or perhaps struggle with grudges or bitterness– well, that’s fine! “We’re all sinners.” As long as they’re not one of those particularly filthy Christians who in God’s providence are beset with that particularly filthy sin.
    
    How interesting that your wife’s father allowed her to marry someone so arrogant, ignorant and hypocritical.
    - David Murray
      
      Don’t worry, I’ll be asking a lot more questions than just that one.
      - burzee2
        
        Great! I hope God causes a (temporary) rift in your family as a result thereof and uses your daughters against you to cause you to see what a proud, hypocritical fool you are. OH WAIT, Pride of heart and mind is OK to get married with and be a father with, but other sins of other organs, are far far worse. (Actually, the Bible implicates the reverse.)
        
        Paul says it’s better to marry than burn. You say marriage doesn’t help the burning, so if you burn, burn alone until you die. What a load of graceless crock and hypocrisy! God help your starving, berated flock, if there be any sheep in it.
        
        Again, how interesting that a man like you, with such a unique set of problems and sins as yourself, was allowed to marry your wife. Again, oh the hypocrisy.
      - burzee2
        
        To re-iterate: Far better to find a godly helpmate to help you battle sin, and live in the grace of God together, present temptations and weaknesses notwithstanding.
        
        That being said, lust is adultery and hell-deserving sin. But hatred/animosity is murder and hell-deserving sin. Envy is theft and hell-deserving sin.
        
        Stop making such ungodly distinctions.
      - Eric
        
        Burzee, only on the “safe annonymity” of the internet would someone engage in such vitriolic name calling as you do. You do not see the sin in that (Matt 5:22)? As someone who has sat under Dr. Murray’s ministry, nothing could be further from the truth than the picture you paint. I want to be challenged about my sin, not coddled in my sin. Nowhere does this post imply that other sins are okay, or that this sin is the worst sin, or that other sins would not disqualify or at least mean a delay in permission to court a daughter. These assumptions are purely inserted by you. If this post cuts you to the heart, then deal with that rather than deflecting your offense to others.
      - burzee2
        
        On the contrary, I’d say this all to his face. I’ve said similar things in real life. I’ve lost several real-life fundamental baptist free-willer, grace-hating, Christ hating friends for their similar adherence to their pet scheme of arrogant self-righteousness.
        
        Anyway, vitriol should be fine! I’ve kept it within the Oxford English Dictionary, after all. Isn’t that the standard? LOL.
        
        No, seriously. What names? Vitriolic how? Calling him arrogant for playing God and judging the hearts of his suitors? Calling him arrogant for looking at others’ sins and setting standards he could never meet? Calling him ignorant for writing about the one particular sin he apparently doesn’t struggle with and can therefore feel good about being exempt from– and holding others accountable to?
        
        His sarcastic quip about “don’t worry, I’ll ask other questions too,” rather indicates he’s a checklist Pharisee. Big surprise.
        
        Vitriol isn’t strong enough. Get me some hydrochloric acid to help me wash away the disgusting, rotten taste of that constant abhorrent Presbyterian admixture of works and grace, “Do this and Live” and “There but by the grace of God go I (but not really, because at least I’m not a pornographer!)”
        
        What ministry? A ministry of death? PAUL SAYS it’s better to marry than
        burn– therefore, marriage helps the burning! MURRAY says, if you burn,
        you’re disqualified from marriage! What’s next, if you’re filthy, you’re
        disqualified from Christ? Same direction! Same mentality!
        
        I already said lust is hell-deserving rottenness. God’s law already convinced me of that without the help of your proud Doctor Of Theology to lay down the Doctor’s law.
        
        Nowhere did I “Insert” that his post implied other sins are OKAY, but it certainly implies they’re Less Not Okay. Nor implied that it was the Worst Sin, but certainly a Worse Sin.
        
        As for the “delay in permission,” that whole idea of courtship you maintain is rather utterly stupid. You derive it primarily from the example of the patriarchs, who also loved polygamy and consistently ruined their families’ lives! An adult daughter is not beholden to her stupid, judgmental father’s every whim about young suitors, and if she is, she should move out!
        
        There is absolutely no Biblical requirement that a Christian female is beholden to her father in the choice of a mate. You law-loving strict Presbyterians read that into the scripture as yet another way to spiritualize your lives and somehow make yourselves more holy, just as you do with other things like sabbatarianism and “covenant works” of paedobaptism/baby dedications, amongst other garbage.
        
        Bloody rotten grace-hating pharisees, in your pleasant pews, with your lives all in order except for the “really bad” sins, spending your lives talking about grace in the fine-print but twisting Scripture to make sure you are all qualified for marriage, qualified for service, qualified for church membership, qualified for Salvation, qualified for Justification, repentant enough, sorrowful enough, diligent enough, qualified for getting-voted-into-the-cool-religious-zealot’s-club (oops, I mean the necessities known as seminary and ordination! unbiblical institutions, all of it), qualified enough for heaven. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. You make me sicker than the most licentious pagan. You abuse God’s law by acting like you can obey it, and talking about how you do obey it in certain regards. You do more damage than a horde of devils, and make tenfold children of hell.
        
        Yes, this post cut me to the heart like a rotten poison– God has used no greater gift in my life to deliver me from temptation than my wife, and yet you religious, regulatory fools would have sinners crushed under the weight of the law, trying to “progressively sanctify” themselves until they’re good enough to advance.
        
        Oh, and by the way, you guys love the phrase, “Deal with sin,” or “Challenged about my sin.” YOU’RE A SINNER– YOU CAN’T DEAL WITH ANYTHING. YOU’RE NOT CHALLENGED– YOU’RE SLAIN IF NOT FREED. YOU WILL LOSE ABSOLUTELY EVERY SINGLE CHALLENGE, ARROGANT GRACE-HATER! YOU’RE DEAD UNLESS GOD HELP YOU. SAME FOR ME. Stop talking as though you are something in yourself! Bloody religious fool. Who has bewitched you? Oh, I guess David Murray did!
        
        Now I must add in a much more gentle manner, more suitable for your delicate eyes and ears, with far less vitriol, “Semi-wretched man that I was! Who delivered me from this body of sort-of-death? Thanks be to me and God through me and Jesus our Lord!” Is that what it says? NO! “Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord!”
      - Bill Noonkesser
        
        David, I would have to agree with you. As the Father of 5 girls I do not relish the process but find that it is so very important. I pray every day or nearly so that the Lord would guide us all in finding godly mates. Perhaps you should do a blog or series of blogs on the questions you will ask. It might be a good thing for young men and women considering marriage to consider, as well as a help to parents that are facing it. I am sure it would get a lot of comments…;)
  - Prerequisite
    
    David, does this apply both ways? Do you think it is appropriate for the parents of the boy to ask the girl if she masturbates or looks at porn?
Caleb

I actually disagree that what we need to do is to ramp up the “Yuk!” factor. Believe me, the yuk factor is still there in most churches, and the fear of shame and ridicule by others who don’t understand the struggle (or how to deal with it in a way that preaches the gospel) forces men (and especially women) who struggle with this to keep their sins further and further in darkness. What needs to happen is churches need to open up about this, and pastors need to intentionally counsel their men and women through this. Can you imagine what would happen to the many women who struggle with this if we ranked up the Yuk factor on Sunday mornings? They would feel even more ashamed of coming out and confessing this sin, and would feel less and less like their identity is grounded in Christ’s finished work and more and more that their identity is found in looking at … and … for pleasure.

I’ve sat in rooms with men who struggle intensely with pornography and other forms of sexual sin, such as homosexuality – genuine believers who have lost marriages to the struggle. One of the hardest things they’ve faced is ridicule from pastors and other church members who tell them to “just stop” what they’re doing, as if rooting out deep idols is that easy. Some in our congregations probably also struggle with homosexuality. Should we rank up the yuk factor there, too, and talk unabashedly about how they find pleasure in … (I can’t even type it because it’s too coarse). Would that help the people in your congregation want to come out into the light about their struggles? Or would they hide it further until it resurfaces after they’re married?

I don’t usually comment, but I just feel that this kind of counsel has the potential to be very destructive. You’re right on the spot that men and women don’t have a “porn” problem. There are other idols in their heart that are causing them to sin, and unless we provide more than surface level answers/counseling to these deep issues, this issue will continue to plague our churches. Telling them to “try harder” or “think of what you’re really doing” is not enough.
- David Murray
  
  Good points Caleb. My main concern is with the increasing numbers who seem to view porn and masturbation as just part of ordinary life, even ordinary married life. Not ideal, but no big deal. I accept that different counsel is needed for men and women who are totally disgusted with themselves and abhor what they do. And yes, this needs to be ultimately traced to the heart, but not by by-passing the habit itself.
http://www.theologyforgirls.com/ Diane Bucknell

Pastor Murray, Thank you so much for this. As always I appreciate your insight and candor. I am equally appalled at the flippancy which this subject is being addressed in the church today. Such casual talk on this subject was unthinkable 40 years ago when I was a young Christian woman.. To this generation’s shame we have become so calloused we “have forgotten how to blush”. Jer. 6:15

We’ve been studying Owen’s Mortification of Sin in our Sunday School class and I wonder if we miss the boat sometimes by focusing so much on this particular sin –please don’t misunderstand – I know it’s a serious problem that has caused the demise of families and societies and it must be repented of. But what concerns me is that the root of the problem may not always be addressed like it should by some counselors – ie: a complete failure to love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength. Without a transformed heart quitting porn will probably just cause a diversion of sin and manifest itself in some other form – I like Owen’s quote here:

“Men in [old] age do not usually persist in the pursuit of youthful lusts, although they have never mortified any one of them. And the same is the case of bartering of lusts, and leaving to serve one that a man may serve another. He that changes pride for worldliness, sensuality for Pharisaism, vanity in himself to the contempt of others, let him not think that he has mortified the sin that he seems to have left. He has changed his master, but is a servant still.”

Again, thank you for bravely speaking the truth in love.
Pingback: View-Worthy: 8.21.14
Rosesarered

We don’t convict people of their sin, the Holy Spirit does. We don’t free people of their sin, the Holy Spirit does. As nice as it would be to have a formula to fix this sin (making it more or less “yucky”) it just cannot happen beyond the working of the Holy Spirit.
- Eric
  
  The Holy Spirit uses means to convict: the word, the rebuke of someone else. The reaction of someone else. All these means have been used in my life to drive the point home to me. I pray the Spirit will use this post that way in many!
http://michaelcoughlin.net/ Michael Coughlin

Wow! I just read the comments…that escalated quickly.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but here is how I read the part about not marrying a masturbator:

I didn’t read: Do not help someone who is sinning in that way.
I did read: Do not marry someone who is sinning in that way.

I didn’t read: Do not marry someone who used to sin in that way, has repented and seen victory.
I did read: Do not marry someone who is sinning in that way.

I didn’t read: No forgiveness is available to anyone who sins that way.
I did read: Do not marry someone who is sinning in that way.

I would have to agree with Prof Murray in the sense that you shouldn’t marry someone who is engaging in a sin which would cause them to be a person with whom you shouldn’t even eat lunch.

1 Cor 5:11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
Pingback: Masturbation: The Unforgivable Sin?
Pingback: Today in Blogworld 09.04.14 - Borrowed Light

You Don’t Have A Porn Problem

Get Email Updates

Get Email Updates